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Htsguy

Cleveland: Which Project Will Be Next and Why

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I like the height and the fact that the tower is built to the street but thank god it didn't happen. It's too bad the PNC tower across the street wasn't built more like this design.

 

 

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On the Euclid Ave side of this spot, maybe Prospect Ave too, but I'm not sure, there was a building called the Hippodrome Theatre, but it was demolished around 1981. Below is a picture of the former Hippodrome Theatre building.

 

http://media.cleveland.com/plain-dealer/photo/2014/07/22/15457402-standard.jpg

 

Cool photo. Immediate to the east of the Hippodrome Bldg is a tiny little building--like 2 stories--very interesting looking.

 

 

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thats great and a very reasonable and do-able near future skyline. that jacobs lot tower is going to need to be taller though. like a lot taller.

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Just six towers of 25 stories or more makes a big difference in the skyline. And one of those six is the Weston Superblock which could be as many as four towers. Nor does this include a new Justice Center/jail.


"Most of us have been conditioned to regard military combat as exciting and glamorous -- an opportunity for men to prove their competence and courage. Since armies are legal, we feel that war is acceptable; in general, nobody feels that that war is criminal or that accepting it is a criminal attitude. In fact, we have been brainwashed. War is neither glamorous nor attractive. It is monstrous. Its very nature is one of tragedy and suffering" --Dalai Lama

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Thank you all for the updates. It's great to see so much excitement about what's happening downtown.

My wish is that the new towers will continue the recent trend of architectural excellence and distinction we see in the Key Tower, Hilton Cleveland and nuCLEus. It is nice to see so many proposals of significant size. Hopefully most, if not all, will happen.

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That would be a very impressive skyline!

 

So, the Hippodrome tower could be the Medical Mutual tower and the Jacobs lot tower could be the Sherwin Williams tower given the proximity to their current locations.  We could have three 500+ foot towers built including Nucleus which would change the skyline in a big way.

 

I don't have insider information, but I am thinking Sherwin Williams is going to build on the empty lot in front of the Lebron James mural.  Then, they could attach it with the current building and reduce the amount of new space that they would need.  The current building could be split into residential and offices.  I think they own the land anyway.

 

A couple of comments on the height of the buildings in the future skyline mock up.  The office building part of Nucleus is supposed to be 300 feet, so it should be much taller.  The Playhouse Square and 515 buildings are going to be residential, so they will be nowhere near as tall as depicted.

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Medical Mutual hasn't decided if it will build a new tower and if so where it will be. The Hippodrome Tower is only a suggestion not an actual project.

 

Sherwin Williams' most recent HQ search did not include the LeBron James mural site. And yes that is based on insider info.

 

A 300-foot-tall office tower is about 30 stories. At standard floor plate sizes of 30,000 square feet, that's 900,000 square feet. NuCLEus is planning only 200,000 square feet of office space. If built as proposed, it will be 54 stories. From the lake it will look about the same size as 200 Public Square.

 

The Playhouse Square tower is proposed to be 30 stories including the parking pedestal and 515 Euclid can be as tall as 29, including the 9 levels of existing parking and ground-level uses.


"Most of us have been conditioned to regard military combat as exciting and glamorous -- an opportunity for men to prove their competence and courage. Since armies are legal, we feel that war is acceptable; in general, nobody feels that that war is criminal or that accepting it is a criminal attitude. In fact, we have been brainwashed. War is neither glamorous nor attractive. It is monstrous. Its very nature is one of tragedy and suffering" --Dalai Lama

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If they all get built that would be great, obviously.  However, I wonder how many people would ever see the skyline from the lake?  I would like to see the "potential" skyline from the vantage point most people will see the skyline; ie I-77, I-71 and both shoreways....yes, on Urbanohio beggars can be choosers  :-P

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I like the way you think STRIVE2THRIVE, but that would be quite an undertaking. I have considered taking the NuCLEus skyline rendering into Photoshop to do just that, but was scared off by the time commitment. A view of this proposed skyline from Innerbelt bridge would be impressive though.

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Medical Mutual hasn't decided if it will build a new tower and if so where it will be. The Hippodrome Tower is only a suggestion not an actual project.

 

Sherwin Williams' most recent HQ search did not include the LeBron James mural site. And yes that is based on insider info.

 

A 300-foot-tall office tower is about 30 stories. At standard floor plate sizes of 30,000 square feet, that's 900,000 square feet. NuCLEus is planning only 200,000 square feet of office space. If built as proposed, it will be 54 stories. From the lake it will look about the same size as 200 Public Square.

 

The Playhouse Square tower is proposed to be 30 stories including the parking pedestal and 515 Euclid can be as tall as 29, including the 9 levels of existing parking and ground-level uses.

 

Not trying to be argumentative, but the Nucleus PDF from the Stark Enterprises website had the office building as 304 feet.  There are 12 or 13 levels of garage and then seven stories of offices, and then the hotel (5 stories) on top of that, so this is really a mixed use building and not strictly office space.  So, it will only be about 60 feet shorter than the AT&T building.

 

For Playhouse and 515 buildings, since these are residential buildings and there will be about 10 feet per floor putting them at about 300 feet.  The BF Keith building is between 250 and 300 feet, so the Playhouse building will be somewhat taller than it.  515 Euclid will be about 100 feet shorter than the Fifth Third Bank.

 

But, it is a great view of the future skyline.

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If the office component is 304 feet (got a link to the PDF?), then the floorplates must be very small. Is that second tower column that doesn't continue above the hotel "bridge"?


"Most of us have been conditioned to regard military combat as exciting and glamorous -- an opportunity for men to prove their competence and courage. Since armies are legal, we feel that war is acceptable; in general, nobody feels that that war is criminal or that accepting it is a criminal attitude. In fact, we have been brainwashed. War is neither glamorous nor attractive. It is monstrous. Its very nature is one of tragedy and suffering" --Dalai Lama

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Below is the link to the pdf.

 

http://www.starkenterprises.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/OH_Cleveland_nuCLEus_iPad.pdf

 

It still shows the office building having 200,000 square feet and I know that it was reduced to 130,000 square feet, so who knows how that is going to change things.  There are only 7 floors of office space, so it would be about 28,500 square feet per floor assuming that there is a total of 200,000 square feet.

 

But, it shows that the top of the hotel is 304 feet and it is on top of the building, so at the skyline view, it will look like one building at that distance.  The office building in the rendering as seen from the Q also makes it look quite small and I don't think that it is accurate.

 

 

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I've really enjoyed looking at those great graphics by W28 and Sizzlin' Beef  showing the proposed new high rise construction in the city from two perspectives.  On Sizzlin' Beef's graphic - Does the blue-highlighted building to the far right represent the PHS Apartment tower?

And if the shorter tower of Nucleus is 304 feet high - I think it should be almost exactly the same height as 55 Public Square (300 feet). 

Also, I wondered if the taller of the buildings in the Weston Superblock, in both perspectives, represents the proposed 38 story tower - if so, I wonder if it should be a little taller - but I see it is consistent in both Sizzlin' and W28's versions.  Do we know the exact height of the tallest Weston tower?  One last question - shouldn't the Federal Court House Tower look a little taller since it is only 10 feet shorter than the Justice Building?

I  think that because of the great height of Key Tower, particularly ( along with the TT and 200 PS) that we really need a couple of 500+ feet towers to really change the impact of our skyline.  We already have 23 skyscrapers with between 20 and 29 stories - and 3 others over 30 stories - but even a dynamic building like the Hilton, at 32 stories, can get a little lost, from certain perspectives.   

After reading the forum tonight, it seems as if the projected future skyline might be more elusive than I thought, since "515" may be waiting for more state funding $ and the PHS project looks like it will be only an improved parking lot for awhile. Of course, if we get Nucleus on the scale originally presented, it's a game changer and hopefully, that major tower on Public Square comes to fruition very soon. 

 

 

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515 Euclid already has its parking pedestal. That project is finishing it's final design will hopefully go before Planning Commission soon. The PHS tower is awaiting state funding for construction of the parking pedestal. The Greyhound block is what will be limited to improved parking until the city can build the new Greyhound station on the lakefront.


"Most of us have been conditioned to regard military combat as exciting and glamorous -- an opportunity for men to prove their competence and courage. Since armies are legal, we feel that war is acceptable; in general, nobody feels that that war is criminal or that accepting it is a criminal attitude. In fact, we have been brainwashed. War is neither glamorous nor attractive. It is monstrous. Its very nature is one of tragedy and suffering" --Dalai Lama

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On Sizzlin' Beef's graphic - Does the blue-highlighted building to the far right represent the PHS Apartment tower?

And if the shorter tower of Nucleus is 304 feet high - I think it should be almost exactly the same height as 55 Public Square (300 feet). 

Also, I wondered if the taller of the buildings in the Weston Superblock, in both perspectives, represents the proposed 38 story tower - if so, I wonder if it should be a little taller - but I see it is consistent in both Sizzlin' and W28's versions. 

PHS tower - yes.  I was eyeballing everything based on renderings and comparative heights to surrounding buildings, so don't take my massings as having any legitimacy.  The only building I spent more than a few minutes on was Nucleus.

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I think we've beat the actual building height topic to death.  Regardless of the heights, it's hopefully going to be a really exciting time in the next 5 years or so.  Berlin was once known as the city of cranes or maybe still is.  Maybe Cleveland can steal that nickname for a bit.

 

cranes-over-berlin_zpsiyvsgvfs.jpg

 

https://worldpittsburgh.wordpress.com/2013/05/13/a-return-to-berlin-part-2/

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I think we've beat the actual building height topic to death.  Regardless of the heights, it's hopefully going to be a really exciting time in the next 5 years or so.  Berlin was once known as the city of cranes or maybe still is.  Maybe Cleveland can steal that nickname for a bit.

 

cranes-over-berlin_zpsiyvsgvfs.jpg

 

https://worldpittsburgh.wordpress.com/2013/05/13/a-return-to-berlin-part-2/

 

South Lake Union part of Downtown Seattle looked similar to this last year.  I generally stay in that part of Downtown for work and I recall completely marveling when counting 7-8 cranes from my hotel window: https://www.djc.com/stories/images/20130314/StateOfBellevue_OldCranes_big.jpg

http://medias.photodeck.com/e65132dc-6c12-4265-8a5b-cd8c705dbd9a/Seattle_Summer_2014-19_xlarge.jpg

 

Portland, OR may be following suit looking look a "crane skyline" as well soon: http://www.oregonlive.com/business/index.ssf/2016/02/11_new_buildings_15_billion_in.html

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I think we've beat the actual building height topic to death.  Regardless of the heights, it's hopefully going to be a really exciting time in the next 5 years or so.  Berlin was once known as the city of cranes or maybe still is.  Maybe Cleveland can steal that nickname for a bit.

 

cranes-over-berlin_zpsiyvsgvfs.jpg

 

https://worldpittsburgh.wordpress.com/2013/05/13/a-return-to-berlin-part-2/

 

South Lake Union part of Downtown Seattle looked similar to this last year.  I generally stay in that part of Downtown for work and I recall completely marveling when counting 7-8 cranes from my hotel window: https://www.djc.com/stories/images/20130314/StateOfBellevue_OldCranes_big.jpg

http://medias.photodeck.com/e65132dc-6c12-4265-8a5b-cd8c705dbd9a/Seattle_Summer_2014-19_xlarge.jpg

 

 

By fall 2015 I was seeing some 20+ cranes in the Seattle skyline when perched atop an Amazon building in South Lake Union.

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KJP - Have you seen any recent renderings for 515 Euclid?

 

No, but they should be coming soon based on this:

http://nadaaa.com/blog/?p=8633


"Most of us have been conditioned to regard military combat as exciting and glamorous -- an opportunity for men to prove their competence and courage. Since armies are legal, we feel that war is acceptable; in general, nobody feels that that war is criminal or that accepting it is a criminal attitude. In fact, we have been brainwashed. War is neither glamorous nor attractive. It is monstrous. Its very nature is one of tragedy and suffering" --Dalai Lama

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So question for Htsguy[/member], is Phase I of the lakefront development enough for that project to be the big winner?

 

Also, on this topic, has anyone noticed if anything has happened at One University Circle beyond the construction fence someone mentioned a few weeks ago?

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Thanks Murray Hill, for the link to an a very interesting article on possible huge-scale future development in Portland in your April 15 post -

I'd love to see Cleveland in a similar reality soon - just wondering if we'll see a "crane in the sky" as a result of the CityMark "Superblock" project during the RNC  (I thought that was a specific timetable goal for CityMark) - any update on that project?

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So question for Htsguy[/member], is Phase I of the lakefront development enough for that project to be the big winner?

 

Also, on this topic, has anyone noticed if anything has happened at One University Circle beyond the construction fence someone mentioned a few weeks ago?

 

I would like to say yes but it is such a small start to a project that is suppose to be transformative that it is hard to get excited at this point,

 

Really surprised that One UC is so far along.  Would have never guessed it at the time I started the thread.

 

And clearly I was wrong in my guess that Brickman's Duck island project would be first (along with a few others who agreed).  In fact way wrong given how the project has evolved and the new renderings we just saw today. 

 

 

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Playhouse Square tower. PHS believes they can start construction by the end of the year.


"Most of us have been conditioned to regard military combat as exciting and glamorous -- an opportunity for men to prove their competence and courage. Since armies are legal, we feel that war is acceptable; in general, nobody feels that that war is criminal or that accepting it is a criminal attitude. In fact, we have been brainwashed. War is neither glamorous nor attractive. It is monstrous. Its very nature is one of tragedy and suffering" --Dalai Lama

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^ wouldn't it be something if the Playhouse Square Tower broke ground before either Stark project. I really love how they got all of their ducks in a row before making the announcement.

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Thanks for bumping this thread. Since the last time it was updated, the following major projects broke ground:

 

1. Snavely at W. 25th and Detroit

2. One University Circle

3. Centric (formerly Intesa)

 

Breakwater Bluffs is almost done, as are several historic renovations -- Garfield, Leader, and Standard buildings. Here is an updated list, in no particular order. I'm limiting it to new construction projects that have been announced.

 

1. Stark nuCLEus

2. Flats East Bank Phase 3 (mixed use or second office building)

3. Weston/Citymark Warehouse District development

4. University Circle City Center

5. Brickman One West 20 development on Lorain in Duck Island

6. Visconsi Little Italy apartments at Coltman and E. 123rd

7. Stark Beacon at 515 Euclid

8. Cumberland Lakefront development

9. Church and State building at Detroit and W. 28th

10. Playhouse Square tower on Euclid

 

This leaves out redevelopment projects like the Cleveland Athletic Club and Halle building, and several others that are likely years away, like the Terminal Tower, May Company and Union Trust (925 Euclid) buildings. And it also leaves out numerous smaller projects in Little Italy, Battery Park, and Tremont.

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From what I understand, 925 Euclid is pretty close to getting underway. I wouldn't be surprised if it gets underway before Playhouse Square's tower.


"Most of us have been conditioned to regard military combat as exciting and glamorous -- an opportunity for men to prove their competence and courage. Since armies are legal, we feel that war is acceptable; in general, nobody feels that that war is criminal or that accepting it is a criminal attitude. In fact, we have been brainwashed. War is neither glamorous nor attractive. It is monstrous. Its very nature is one of tragedy and suffering" --Dalai Lama

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Funny...when I first started this thread in October 2014 I did not even include Beacon in my suggested list and stated that the Playhouse Square apartment building was only "rumored", and it looks like both will break ground well before my first choice, Brickman's Duck Island project, which still has a long way to go (they are now suggesting early 2018).  Other projects that were not even announced at the time (like the Snavely Ohio City project) are well on their way in contrast to other announced projects on my list which have not even started and don't appear to have a chance go start any time soon.

 

Really thought the lakefront would have started by now (nothing done other than the Mexican restaurant).

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It seems like work on the Halle building is happening. I have no idea how major or minor but I see construction workers there every day. Unless they are just loitering there and they actually are working at the CAC. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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Hopefully Playhouse tower  starts at the end of the year like they said, so a year or two from now were not talking when they are breaking  ground like

Nucleus or Weston.

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Hopefully Playhouse tower  starts at the end of the year like they said, so a year or two from now were not talking when they are breaking  ground like

Nucleus or Weston.

 

I'm not certain it will be that fast, but they got their financing in order before they made their announcement. For that reason, I don't think it will face substantial delays.

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