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Cleveland: Downtown: nuCLEus

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The Melbourne laneways....

 

Open-air:

 

 

Perhaps this is a design concept that could warrant wider use around the city re: wind protection in colder months?

 

 

I like it.  It gives a sort of European feel in the old medieval parts of cities....Florence, Rome, London etc.

 

And it's a nice, density driving change-up from the more suburban style developments going on (ie Flats East Bank, etc.).

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Thanks for the feedback re: the massings KJP and jborger. Sketchup is a fun little program to make this sort of thing!

 

One thing I wonder regarding the laneways is how crowded they will be before and after games and other events at the Gateway complex. It could end up being a good thing (lots of foot traffic in a tight-knit urban retail environment) or a bad thing (a confined area becoming TOO crowded).

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Discalimer!!!!!

 

I like what the project does for the parking lot.

 

BUT

 

I think the buildings are too big for the Site and lack the human scale that the buildings around it have.

 

 

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Without having detailed designs there's really no way of knowing how it'll feel for a pedestrian. Size of the building doesn't necessarily correlate to pedestrian scale. A 400 foot tall building can feel more human scaled than a two story building if designed properly. Setbacks, a ground level that isn't just long and flat, a good mix of uses, etc. can all make a large building feel properly scaled to the human user. Hopefully we see that from this project, especially if they're going for the laneways concept since that's dependent on proper scaling.

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Discalimer!!!!!

 

I like what the project does for the parking lot.

 

BUT

 

I think the buildings are too big for the Site and lack the human scale that the buildings around it have.

 

 

 

Stark seems to feel this scale of structure is necessary to generate enough revenue to retire the debt from the property's large purchase price. If he could higher rents instead to offer buildings of lesser scale, I suspect he would.

 

I know the 515 Euc building is showing up on these massings for Stark - but it also was on the Ferrari Tower plan too.

Did I miss some news?

 

You didn't miss anything. There's been no news. I searched the web for any hint of any movement on it and found nothing.


"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

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Discalimer!!!!!

 

I like what the project does for the parking lot.

 

BUT

 

I think the buildings are too big for the Site and lack the human scale that the buildings around it have.

 

 

I always imagined the e4th side being made to look like the euclid-prospect segment with a tall tower behind it. 

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So I just checked the Cuyahoga County Fiscal Officer's website and I am happy to announce that it looks like the L&R portfolio has transferred to some Stark subsidiaries!!!!

 

It begins. :)

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The company is Gateway Huron LLC and the title transfer was recorded Sept. 18. It says the land at the SE corner of East 4th and Prospect sold for $6.5 million. The land was bought three years earlier for $9.4 million.

 

The land on the SW corner of 4th and Prospect transferred the same day and sold for $500,000. The prior owner LR 310 PROSPECT INVESTORS LLC bought it in 2008 for $532,335.

 

I haven't checked all the parcels in the area, but it sounds like Stark got some good deals.


"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

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Thanks for the information guys!  Is the SW corner parcel mentioned above is the corner where L&R wanted to construct the two story building with the huge video board?

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Downtown Cleveland parking portfolio sells for $26 million, setting stage for Stark Enterprises project

 

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Northeast Ohio investors paid $26 million this week for a downtown Cleveland parking portfolio, laying groundwork for a major development project in the city's Gateway District.

 

Stark Enterprises and J-Dek Investments Ltd. bought five properties Thursday from the L&R Group of Companies of California, public records show. In separate transactions, the investors paid other landowners an additional $2.75 million for two small parcels that round out a development site just north of Quicken Loans Arena.

 

 

http://www.cleveland.com/business/index.ssf/2014/09/downtown_cleveland_parking_por.html#incart_river

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And great job UrbanOhio (specifically SixthCity!) for scooping the PD -- possibly even giving Michelle a heads-up on the transactions.

 

BTW, its great to see the Warehouse District parcels were part of this transaction too.


"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

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And great job UrbanOhio (specifically SixthCity!) for scooping the PD -- possibly even giving Michelle a heads-up on the transactions.

 

BTW, its great to see the Warehouse District parcels were part of this transaction too.

 

Thanks KJP but in the interest of full disclosure - it was Michelle who scooped me.  I ran into her at the City Planning Commission meeting this morning and we talked for awhile.  She mentioned that the sale was supposed to close on the 18th.  I immediately went home and checked and she was correct.  No matter how good I think I am, I will always be a step behind her.

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Stark’s project aims to give Cleveland new ‘face’

Posted: Thursday, October 2, 2014 12:00 pm

JACQUELINE MITCHELL | STAFF REPORTER

jmitchell@cjn.org

 

“As the legend goes, when the phoenix resurrects from the flames, she is even more beautiful than before,” reads the Danielle LaPorte quote – chosen to describe the burgeoning renaissance of Cleveland – that is featured prominently in the preliminary materials outlining nucleus, Stark Enterprises’ latest downtown venture.

 

nuCLEus, Stark’s modern shopping hub and residential area, will be situated in the center of the city. The project will cost an estimated $350 million, with 500 apartments, a minimum of 200,000 square feet of office space and a goal of attracting national restaurants and retailers.

 

Bob Stark, president and CEO of Stark Enterprises of Cleveland, said the company is expecting construction to commence after the first of the new year.

 

READ MORE AT:

http://www.clevelandjewishnews.com/special_sections/article_6c209c4a-4994-11e4-ba95-eb095b820e4e.html?utm_medium=referral&utm_source=t.co


"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

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Stark’s project aims to give Cleveland new ‘face’

Posted: Thursday, October 2, 2014 12:00 pm

JACQUELINE MITCHELL | STAFF REPORTER

jmitchell@cjn.org

 

“As the legend goes, when the phoenix resurrects from the flames, she is even more beautiful than before,” reads the Danielle LaPorte quote – chosen to describe the burgeoning renaissance of Cleveland – that is featured prominently in the preliminary materials outlining nucleus, Stark Enterprises’ latest downtown venture.

 

nuCLEus, Stark’s modern shopping hub and residential area, will be situated in the center of the city. The project will cost an estimated $350 million, with 500 apartments, a minimum of 200,000 square feet of office space and a goal of attracting national restaurants and retailers.

 

Bob Stark, president and CEO of Stark Enterprises of Cleveland, said the company is expecting construction to commence after the first of the new year.

 

READ MORE AT:

http://www.clevelandjewishnews.com/special_sections/article_6c209c4a-4994-11e4-ba95-eb095b820e4e.html?utm_medium=referral&utm_source=t.co

 

He certainly has me excited about this project... Interesting comment about  the "several high-rises that will be visible from everywhere in the city".  Can't wait to see some renderings

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What intrigues me is he said he expects construction to start after the first of the year.  That's a crazy fast timeline.  Do we know who the architect and engineer is for the project?  If that is the case, I would expect to se plans in design review shortly. 

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^I find this hard to believe unless they are just going to start on the rehab of those Prospect Buildings that were involved in that lawsuit.  I was under the impression they are still looking for investors for the big project.

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Regarding the timetable for the Stark project. This is what Stark indicated in a recent article from mjarboe[/member].

 

Our intention is to open up a portion of this development, probably most of the parking part of it, before the Republican National Convention," Stark said, "and then open the rest of it up in late 2016 or the spring of 2017

 

http://www.cleveland.com/business/index.ssf/2014/09/downtown_cleveland_parking_por.html#incart_river

 

So we shall see.

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Not if they want to see the market stay in the doldrums. Sometimes, developers need to push the market a little. Too bad FCE doesn't take this approach. There is a risk in it, but isn't that what growing is all about?

 

I was just talking with someone about what site Stark is eyeballing. The article says "between Huron and Prospect." The only underutilized sites I can think of between those two streets is the section east of Ontario to the Pointe at Gateway. There are two large surface parking lots in the area, one of the Gateway parking decks and several smaller buildings, including Myers University. See the lower-center portion of MayDay's picture....

 

tackle20.jpg

 

To fit millions of square feet of anything into that small space (assuming that is the proposed space), Stark would have to build some pretty tall buildings and a lot of them. For comparison, Key Tower is 1.538 million square feet. Stark is talking 10 million to 11 million square feet. That's about seven Key Towers, or 14 towers in the range of 25-30 stories. It's also about 4,000 residences, if my math is right (which needs double-checking!). At current construction costs per square foot, that's roughly $1.6 billion, putting it on par with the Terminal Tower complex of 1930 and all its railroad access routes. Yet, Stark and the Carney Family built Crocker Park for $420 million, so it's not that big of a leap for Stark to propose a $1.6 billion project.

 

Hell, I say go for it.

 

KJP

 

Looks like KJP had the inside scoop on this nearly a decade ago!  Found this in the thread Re: Downtown Cleveland development pitched by Crocker Park builder

 

Read more: http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,2591.0.html#ixzz3GRUkVikS

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10 million sq. feet! Build it they will come!!! :-D

 

Nu-CLE-us won't be that big. But it will have to be a vertical development to produce a revenue stream large enough to retire the debt he's incurred to buy those parking lots.


"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

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Considering he wants to cram retail, offices, public parking and 500 apartments in that parcel, it would definitely have to be vertical.

 

For speculation's sake, how tall would a 500 unit residential building be, assuming it would be about half the size of the parcel (like the massings suggest) and all of the units are the size of an average downtown apartment?

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Considering he wants to cram retail, offices, public parking and 500 apartments in that parcel, it would definitely have to be vertical.

 

For speculation's sake, how tall would a 500 unit residential building be, assuming it would be about half the size of the parcel (like the massings suggest) and all of the units are the size of an average downtown apartment?

 

Some comparisons....

Residences at 668: 8 stories - 232 apartments

Schofield Building: 14 stories - 122 hotel rooms/55 apartments

Crittenden Court: 17 stories - 208 apartments

Residences at 1717: 21 stories - 223 apartments

Reserve Square: 23 stories each tower - 460 +/- apartments

 

 

 


"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

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^a 40-50 story residential building---with some floors apartments and the higher floors condos--- with balconies throughout the building would be so very sweet. I'd buy a unit on the 45th floor in a second. (Though I wouldn't pay the same money to just rent one on the 45th floor.)

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Considering he wants to cram retail, offices, public parking and 500 apartments in that parcel, it would definitely have to be vertical.

 

For speculation's sake, how tall would a 500 unit residential building be, assuming it would be about half the size of the parcel (like the massings suggest) and all of the units are the size of an average downtown apartment?

 

Some comparisons....

Residences at 668: 8 stories - 232 apartments

Schofield Building: 14 stories - 122 hotel rooms/55 apartments

Crittenden Court: 17 stories - 208 apartments

Residences at 1717: 21 stories - 223 apartments

Reserve Square: 23 stories each tower - 460 +/- apartments

 

 

 

 

Are those building the same or approximate footprint at Nucleus?

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Are those building the same or approximate footprint at Nucleus?

 

Most are much smaller. The totality of Reserve Square's (450'x350') footprint is a little bit larger than nu-CLE-us' (430'x275') and it has fewer apartments (460) in two 23-story towers connected by a five-level parking deck than what nu-CLE-us would have.


"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

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Are those building the same or approximate footprint at Nucleus?

 

Most are much smaller. The totality of Reserve Square's (450'x350') footprint is a little bit larger than nu-CLE-us' (430'x275') and it has fewer apartments (460) in two 23-story towers connected by a five-level parking deck than what nu-CLE-us would have.

 

KJP, is that the totality of NuCLEus' footprint or just the half the massing sits on? Sounds like it could be 40+ stories if he wants all the residential in a single building, especially if he's having apartments larger than the meager ones at Reserve.

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KJP, is that the totality of NuCLEus' footprint or just the half the massing sits on? Sounds like it could be 40+ stories if he wants all the residential in a single building, especially if he's having apartments larger than the meager ones at Reserve.

 

That's the entirety of the property Stark acquired east of East 4th, including the retail frontage on Prospect and the parking deck on Huron, both of which are to be razed. I measured from halfway down the Prospect frontage to halfway down the Huron frontage, and from halfway between Prospect/Huron on East 4th to the eastern edge of the property midway between Prospect/Huron.

 

It didn't include any of the property west of East 4th fronting Prospect that he acquired. That could add about 40-60 apartments to the total.


"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

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