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Cleveland: Downtown: nuCLEus

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How is there a picture of the skyline renderings?  Are there already renderings of the buildings themselves?

 

The graphic above is a massing, not a rendering. He'll use that to attract tenants (probably some anchor retailers), then draw up some conceptual renderings to secure the financing. And if he gets the financing, then we'll see some meaningful renderings. A lot of this is dependent on how fast The 9 fills up and at what rents. If Stark's project comes together quickly, then that will be a strong affirmation that downtown has turned another corner.

From my research of looking for places....The 9 seems to be over 50% leased already.

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So, I wonder how this will tie in with the Ferrari dealership :wink:.

 

Huh, that was actually one of the first things I thought of- I actually think it makes development of that site quite a bit more feasible, as it is actually right across East 4th St. from Stark's project, and could be a continuation of the Huron retail frontage created by Stark's project- all the way to Ontario.  Of course, foot traffic isn't what sells Ferraris, as only the richest of the people rich enough to buy one can afford to do so as an impulse buy.

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It may not help get the ferrari brand, but it might help justify the construction of such a large building. 

 

Get the casino across the street and that ontario-huron intersection will be cookin with gas.

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I never thought I'd see the day when this site would see a potential redevelopment much less people wringing their hands about the potential loss of the former Domino Lounge (Nick's Sports bar). Architecturally, I don't see it as a great loss but the building has some interesting history when it comes to Cleveland's jazz scene: http://www.cleveland.oh.us/wmv_news/jazz136.htm

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I hate to see any historic structures get demolished. But if sacrificing this otherwise inglorious building and the nasty parking structure behind it is the price for filling one of downtown's most notable parking craters (second only to the Public-Square/Warehouse District crater -- more like a dead sea), then I'll take it.

 

BTW, someone asked earlier if Stark can do this given his failure with Pesht. He most certainly does have the capacity. Consider that he invested $400 million on Crocker Park's initial phase (and continues to invest with the second-phase residential, a new hotel and American Greetings HQ), with a cost of construction in excess of $400 per square foot. That includes all the planning, site prep, legal costs, interest, etc. Downtown will be more expensive, perhaps $500 per square foot or higher. If Stark invested in nuCLEus the same $400 million he initially invested in Crocker Park, we could be looking at an 800,000-square-foot project. That's not to say this is what he has in mind. This development actually looks like two 20-story towers, connected by a backwards C-shaped shaped structure of about 10-15 stories. In terms of total floors, that's in the ballpark of a Key Tower which has 1.5 million square feet. So based only on a distant view of a massing, Stark's conceptual idea for this development appears to be about double the size of the initial phase of Crocker Park. And like I said, Crocker Park has been added onto a lot since with new residential, AG and the hotel. So I would think Stark has the capacity to bring off this project, which I would guess has a total investment somewhere in the $700 million to $800 million range. But this project is a big hail mary -- as is the lakefront development which is of similar scale and price tag. That project is being developed in phases, and Stark will surely have to to develop this site in phases too -- most likely starting with the low-level stuff on Prospect west of East 4th. The phasing of what he builds next will depend on what retail anchors he signs. He'll have to get retail anchors to get financing. No one is going to give Stark the financing based on speculation he'll fill the towers at the rents needed -- though The 9's leasing at its higher rates is certainly encouraging.

 

BTW, the phasing to build everything could take 10 years or so. I was covering Westlake from 1996-2005 for Sun Newspapers when Crocker Park's first phase (the retail core) was finished in 2004. The planning for Crocker Park started several years before that. It was a disgusting legal and PR battle with the Jacobs Group fighting it by funding a citizens group, Citizens for a Greener Westlake. But that fight was not the reason why the project is still being built more than a decade later. Cleveland isn't Kuala Lumpur, Dubai or even Chicago. It takes many years for a project's phasing to be completed in Greater Cleveland. Stark is in his 60s and fought cancer a decade ago. But I see at least one of his sons is following in his father's development footsteps. So there is a realistic chance this project will be nurtured over time.


"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

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Looking at the massing, if we could bookend E4th with nuCLEus (can't believe I actually used that term) and 515 tower, downtown CLE would be in real good shape.

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How is there a picture of the skyline renderings?  Are there already renderings of the buildings themselves?

 

The graphic above is a massing, not a rendering. He'll use that to attract tenants (probably some anchor retailers), then draw up some conceptual renderings to secure the financing. And if he gets the financing, then we'll see some meaningful renderings. A lot of this is dependent on how fast The 9 fills up and at what rents. If Stark's project comes together quickly, then that will be a strong affirmation that downtown has turned another corner.

From my research of looking for places....The 9 seems to be over 50% leased already.

 

69% to be exact.

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I'm loving almost everything about this project, but I'm sort of disappointed to see that it looks like they will be tearing down the attractive little brick building facing Prospect. 

 

I think you're talking about the building with Mr. Albert's Men's World, with Nick's sports bar and that DNA rooftop club... yeah, I don't like losing a quirky little building like this because it adds to the unique, historic urban fabric of Prospect.  But I'd rather have this new development more.  Sometimes you've gotta give something to get something.

 

I agree that this new development has a lot more to give than that little brick building. But still, it's a nice handsome historic building. I wish they could just build on top of it and keep the facade. If we were in Europe, I'm sure that's what would be happening. But alas, we are not.

 

However, if the Harold Building is really going to be restored to its original state, then I guess it sort of cancels out the demolition. I was certain for the longest time that there was no saving that building.

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It will be interesting to see what kind (and how much) retail Stark will be able to attract to this complex.  Nobody knows of course, but I'm assuming it would be on the ground level along Prospect, which will be interesting in terms of the historical association of retail to Euclid.  With the apartments going in at the May Co. building, the restoration of the Herold, along with Red, The Steakhouse, among other substantial developments, Prospect is becoming the Hot street downtown – amazing considering the dump/hooker haven it was not even 15 years ago.  I’d have expected the apartment tower at 515 to be developed before this, but we’ll take an all-new, luxury residential structure of this purported magnitude wherever we can get it… 

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Too bad Stark couldn't have had American Greetings as a part of this development instead of luring them to Westlake.

 

American Greetings had no interest in being downtown.


"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

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Too bad Stark couldn't have had American Greetings as a part of this development instead of luring them to Westlake.

 

American Greetings had no interest in being downtown.

I bet in a few years when the downtown population has grown even more, especially with millenials American Greetings will regret not being downtown.  I think it was on this site that talked about how Progressive is recruiting young professionals showing them downtown and a lot of them love it, but not the fact that Progressive is out in the suburbs.  Can't help but think that would certainly apply to American Greetings' recruits.

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I hope whatever retail gets built is placed along East 4th between Prospect and Huron. Maybe even close the street to pedestrians only, like the current East 4th, but traffic considerations for The Q/Progressive Field might prevent it.

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Too bad Stark couldn't have had American Greetings as a part of this development instead of luring them to Westlake.

 

American Greetings had no interest in being downtown.

 

And Lebron's not coming back, and the RNC is going to Dallas, and we will never add hundreds of new residences/hotels etc.

This is New Cleveland...all things are possible...

 

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How is there a picture of the skyline renderings?  Are there already renderings of the buildings themselves?

 

The graphic above is a massing, not a rendering. He'll use that to attract tenants (probably some anchor retailers), then draw up some conceptual renderings to secure the financing. And if he gets the financing, then we'll see some meaningful renderings. A lot of this is dependent on how fast The 9 fills up and at what rents. If Stark's project comes together quickly, then that will be a strong affirmation that downtown has turned another corner.

From my research of looking for places....The 9 seems to be over 50% leased already.

 

69% to be exact.

 

I received an email Friday stating "The 9 in downtown Cleveland is now officially 75% leased!"

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Too bad Stark couldn't have had American Greetings as a part of this development instead of luring them to Westlake.

 

American Greetings had no interest in being downtown.

 

And Lebron's not coming back, and the RNC is going to Dallas, and we will never add hundreds of new residences/hotels etc.

This is New Cleveland...all things are possible...

 

 

Yes, they are. But American Greetings wanted to be downtown as much as Eaton did. Or Ferro. Downtown isn't for everyone and that's OK. We'll gladly take the ones who do want to be here.

 

Considering that downtown has Northeast Ohio's highest rents (for residential) and its lowest vacancies, the market continues to absorb tenants for projects like The 9 and hopefully new-construction projects nuCLEus too.


"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

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^ I thought University Circle had the highest rents, followed by Beachwood, and then Downtown.

While I'm sure it would be better for your theories if that were true...it changed in 2013.  From a KJP post..."Interesting.This 2013 apartment market analysis report for Greater Cleveland shows that the apartment submarket with the highest rents and lowest vacancy rates is "Central Cleveland."

 

http://www.mimginvestment.com/documents/resources/Cleveland_4Q13Apt.pdf

 

Submarket Vacancy Ranking

 

                                                            Vacancy    Y-O-Y Basis      Effective        Y-O-Y

Rank Submarket                                      Rate    Point Change      Rents      % Change

1 Central Cleveland                                2.5%            80          $1,058            0.8%

2 Lake County                                        3.0%              0              $743            6.3%

3 Westlake/North Olmsted/Lorain Cnty  3.6%            50              $833            0.7%

4 Parma/Middleburg Heights                  3.9%              0              $736              2.5%

5 Strongsville/North Royalton/Medina    4.0%          240              $785              2.1%

6 West Cleveland                                    4.7%          270              $702              0.4%

7 East Cleveland                                    5.1%            90              $831              3.2%

8 Beachwood/Mayfield                            5.3%        280              $926              5.9%

9 Euclid                                                    7.0%        -90              $631            12.3%

10 Southeast Cleveland                          8.2%        470              $724              4.0%

 

###"

 

Read more: http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,24830.805.html#ixzz3A5aBxvGZ

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so outside of the club its mostly that parking lot and garage? in that case, it looks like all systems are go for it.

 

at the very minimum its so nice to see a damn parking lot redeveloped for more appropriate city use again. of course its so much more than that. it will also be great to see stark really come through on downtown. i know he has been itching to for a long time. its like practice for the warehouse district lots.

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^ I thought University Circle had the highest rents, followed by Beachwood, and then Downtown.

While I'm sure it would be better for your theories if that were true...it changed in 2013.  From a KJP post..."Interesting.This 2013 apartment market analysis report for Greater Cleveland shows that the apartment submarket with the highest rents and lowest vacancy rates is "Central Cleveland."

 

http://www.mimginvestment.com/documents/resources/Cleveland_4Q13Apt.pdf

 

Submarket Vacancy Ranking

 

                                                            Vacancy    Y-O-Y Basis      Effective        Y-O-Y

Rank Submarket                                      Rate    Point Change      Rents      % Change

1 Central Cleveland                                2.5%            80          $1,058            0.8%

2 Lake County                                        3.0%              0              $743            6.3%

3 Westlake/North Olmsted/Lorain Cnty  3.6%            50              $833            0.7%

4 Parma/Middleburg Heights                  3.9%              0              $736              2.5%

5 Strongsville/North Royalton/Medina    4.0%          240              $785              2.1%

6 West Cleveland                                    4.7%          270              $702              0.4%

7 East Cleveland                                    5.1%            90              $831              3.2%

8 Beachwood/Mayfield                            5.3%        280              $926              5.9%

9 Euclid                                                    7.0%        -90              $631            12.3%

10 Southeast Cleveland                          8.2%        470              $724              4.0%

 

###"

 

Read more: http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,24830.805.html#ixzz3A5aBxvGZ

 

Im not quite sure what you are talking about, but I was just remembering what was stated in an article about uptown awhile ago. And Central Cleveland probably includes University Circle and other neighborhoods since those markets do not show up on that list anywhere. The list I found is older, from 2011 and has Beachwood at the top followed by Downtown/Flats. University Circle is not included on the list but is mentioned that the rents would be the highest in the region.

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Ill have a hard time calling this project nuCLEus, but i'm extremely excited for this project.  Stark definitely is a man with connections, so if this project actually happens, I think we might finally see retail back downtown! Our other developers do a good job with projects, but don't seem to have the same connections Stark has. This could be a game changer for downtown if done correctly.

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This is just speculation, but he must have a big anchor tenant who is interested in the site.  I wonder if there's any chance American Greetings will ditch the boring suburbs and consider this site.

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This is just speculation, but he must have a big anchor tenant who is interested in the site.  I wonder if there's any chance American Greetings will ditch the boring suburbs and consider this site.

They're already planning on moving into a Stark development.

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This is just speculation, but he must have a big anchor tenant who is interested in the site.  I wonder if there's any chance American Greetings will ditch the boring suburbs and consider this site.

They're already planning on moving into a Stark development.

 

Getting a major corp like AG downtown would be a huge plus considering (if we're to believe reports) they almost departed from the Cleveland region entirely.

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Not sure how much we can read into the exact language, but Michelle's Cleveland.com piece implied that office space wasn't necessarily a key component of this project.  Didn't sound to me like an anchor office tenant was really driving this.

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If Stark needs an anchor, it's going to come in the form of a retail portfolio for this project.  An anchor retailer with commitments from some smaller ones.  The apartments aren't much of a risk in Cleveland, depending on the price point. 

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This is just speculation, but he must have a big anchor tenant who is interested in the site.  I wonder if there's any chance American Greetings will ditch the boring suburbs and consider this site.

 

Can we nip this ridiculous and pointless speculation in the bud already?  This issue has been covered over and over in other threads.  AG is going into the Stark development at Crocker Park.  Period.

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I wouldn't complain if the mix of offices and retail were similar to Eaton Collection. 

What I do expect is national chain restaurants like Maggiano's, or PappaDeaux to be part of the mix.

 

What would be nice is if Trader Joe's, who is at both Eaton and Crocker Park, were part of the mix

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Is downtown population at a point yet where a significant national retailer could be lured to this project?

 

I expect a national retailer, if different from what's at Steelyard, would draw from beyond downtown. If so, it would simultaneously bolster more residential development downtown (and nearby) as I think Heinen's has done for nuCLEus and some of the more recently proposed office building conversions. This is how a housing/retail market is ratcheted upward.


"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

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Appears the Stark folks just added the below nuCLEus brochure (dated 9/2014) onto their site. It adds some additional details - including the "laneways" concept - into the mix. Interesting..

 

Find the brochure download on the left side of this page: http://starkenterprises.com/properties/nucleus/

 

"nuCLEus will introduce laneways to downtown Cleveland, a unique form of urban place making originating in Melbourne, Australia. The laneway at nuCLEus will be a tight intimate space that offers al fresco eateries, one-off shops and cozy little bars, all nestled side-by-side in a unique alley setting with its own individual character and charm."

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Appears the Stark folks just added the below nuCLEus brochure (dated 9/2014) onto their site. It adds some additional details - including the "laneways" concept - into the mix. Interesting..

 

Find the brochure download on the left side of this page: http://starkenterprises.com/properties/nucleus/

 

"nuCLEus will introduce laneways to downtown Cleveland, a unique form of urban place making originating in Melbourne, Australia. The laneway at nuCLEus will be a tight intimate space that offers al fresco eateries, one-off shops and cozy little bars, all nestled side-by-side in a unique alley setting with its own individual character and charm."

 

The Laneway concept will be a big hit here. It's just what downtown needs more of.

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Appears the Stark folks just added the below nuCLEus brochure (dated 9/2014) onto their site. It adds some additional details - including the "laneways" concept - into the mix. Interesting..

 

Find the brochure download on the left side of this page: http://starkenterprises.com/properties/nucleus/

 

"nuCLEus will introduce laneways to downtown Cleveland, a unique form of urban place making originating in Melbourne, Australia. The laneway at nuCLEus will be a tight intimate space that offers al fresco eateries, one-off shops and cozy little bars, all nestled side-by-side in a unique alley setting with its own individual character and charm."

 

Am I seeing things, or does page 9 of the brochure show a tower on 515 Euclid?

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