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Cincinnati: Wasson Way Trail

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Joseph family buys land along Wasson Way for $3.1 million

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2018/01/22/joseph-family-buys-land-along-wasson-way-for-3-1.html

A company affiliated with the Joseph family purchased properties at the east end of the second phase of the Wasson Way bike trail.

 

Pond Realty Co., a company incorporated by Ron Joseph, Robert Joseph and Braden Mechley in 1969, purchased six parcels of land along the Wasson Way route and Montgomery Road. It purchased four properties from Norfolk Southern Railway Co. in November 2017 for more than $2.8 million and two more parcels from Virginia Holding Co. for $346,555. Pond Realty paid cash for the properties, according to property records.

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Joseph family buys land along Wasson Way for $3.1 million

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2018/01/22/joseph-family-buys-land-along-wasson-way-for-3-1.html

A company affiliated with the Joseph family purchased properties at the east end of the second phase of the Wasson Way bike trail.

 

Pond Realty Co., a company incorporated by Ron Joseph, Robert Joseph and Braden Mechley in 1969, purchased six parcels of land along the Wasson Way route and Montgomery Road. It purchased four properties from Norfolk Southern Railway Co. in November 2017 for more than $2.8 million and two more parcels from Virginia Holding Co. for $346,555. Pond Realty paid cash for the properties, according to property records.

 

At this point, the Joseph's are just trolling the future.


“All truly great thoughts are conceived while walking.”
-Friedrich Nietzsche

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I did the math on this parcel a long time ago and they could have easily fit the maintenance facility for a countywide light rail system in this area.  Would have been a great spot because it's right where several lines would converge per the Metro Moves plan near XU. 

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Should be a mixed use development with retail fronting the bike trail and apartments above.

 

Will probably end up being a car dealership.

 

Well you have to have somewhere to buy a car so you can drive your bike to the half-mile long bike trail!


“To an Ohio resident - wherever he lives - some other part of his state seems unreal.”

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Should be a mixed use development with retail fronting the bike trail and apartments above.

 

Will probably end up being a car dealership.

 

I think the city of Norwood / Cincinnati can simply travel over to Indy to see the potential of this trail on a neighborhood.

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It's going to be a corporate headquarters.

 

Yeah, I heard Bezos caught wind of this transaction and has since added Cincinnati to the list of 21. Those Josephs, man. Tricky, tricky.

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Should be a mixed use development with retail fronting the bike trail and apartments above.

 

Will probably end up being a car dealership.

 

I think the city of Norwood / Cincinnati can simply travel over to Indy to see the potential of this trail on a neighborhood.

 

Fortunately, a member of Norwood City Council (who I believe is also a member of this forum) said that he intends to fight this. Hopefully they are able to get this zoned to encourage some type of development that compliments the bike trail. I just wonder if the Josephs have as much control over Norwood politicians as they seem to have over some Cincinnati politicians.

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Should be a mixed use development with retail fronting the bike trail and apartments above.

 

Will probably end up being a car dealership.

 

I think the city of Norwood / Cincinnati can simply travel over to Indy to see the potential of this trail on a neighborhood.

 

The Atlanta beltline seems the better comparison to the Cultural Trail. Both are great

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^Actually I was talking more about the Monon Trail in Indy, sorry I wasn't specific there!  It's an old rails to trail project and in the Broad Ripple area it seems to have a lot of redevelopment on going throughout.

 

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.8729554,-86.1421672,2a,75y,246.77h,93.33t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sRieu9DEIDJoGyUqv3ZLF2w!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

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^Actually I was talking more about the Monon Trail in Indy, sorry I wasn't specific there!  It's an old rails to trail project and in the Broad Ripple area it seems to have a lot of redevelopment on going throughout.

 

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.8729554,-86.1421672,2a,75y,246.77h,93.33t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sRieu9DEIDJoGyUqv3ZLF2w!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

 

I think I'm actually going to show this to the Dayton Riverfront redesign committee as an example of how to really integrate a bike trail into a space; I'd love to see more stuff like this directly along the bike paths here. Yellow Springs and Xenia both have some integration with old train stations along the trail, like what you see here with the Monon.


“To an Ohio resident - wherever he lives - some other part of his state seems unreal.”

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Interesting to hear that the railroad sold that piece of property.  It's been an eyesore for years and I know that Norwood's mayor and others were frustrated with the railroad, as they were essentially doing nothing with the property and it was an eyesore. 

 

There's already a parking lot that was built last year on the far east end of the property that is currently being used for Duke Energy employees on the other side of the Wasson Way route.  I don't think that parking lot was intended to remain in place long term though.

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^Actually I was talking more about the Monon Trail in Indy, sorry I wasn't specific there!  It's an old rails to trail project and in the Broad Ripple area it seems to have a lot of redevelopment on going throughout.

 

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.8729554,-86.1421672,2a,75y,246.77h,93.33t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sRieu9DEIDJoGyUqv3ZLF2w!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

 

That looks quite nice, but wow, Indy's built environment is so incredibly underwhelming. I've always heard about Broad Ripple being one of Indy's better urban neighborhoods, but from doing a little traveling on that streetview link, it looks less urban than downtown Loveland! Hell, it almost looks rural. I simply do not understand the appeal of Indianapolis, I suppose.

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^I think if you checked it out in person you would find it more appealing.  It's actually quite a big area and it is definitely not intense urbanism, but it's pretty good.  Definitely not an OTR, or anythign really to compare it to in Cincy in my opinion, but it kind of is spread out over the main strip which is Broad Ripple Ave

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^Actually I was talking more about the Monon Trail in Indy, sorry I wasn't specific there!  It's an old rails to trail project and in the Broad Ripple area it seems to have a lot of redevelopment on going throughout.

 

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.8729554,-86.1421672,2a,75y,246.77h,93.33t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sRieu9DEIDJoGyUqv3ZLF2w!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

 

That looks quite nice, but wow, Indy's built environment is so incredibly underwhelming. I've always heard about Broad Ripple being one of Indy's better urban neighborhoods, but from doing a little traveling on that streetview link, it looks less urban than downtown Loveland! Hell, it almost looks rural. I simply do not understand the appeal of Indianapolis, I suppose.

 

Broad Ripple is certainly more impressive in person.  If I had to give a Cincinnati comparison, it would be like a whiter, vibrant, infill-happy, denser-commercial district version of College Hill in Cincinnati.  Basically a random older district surrounded by 1930's-1960's homes that is growing up...like Los Feliz! ;)


"You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers

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^Yes and even College Hill might be too intense of a commercial strip to compare with Broad Ripple, talking density wise.  Oakley may be a better comparison.

 

I visited my friend in Dallas and the area he was at reminded me a bit more of Broad Ripple, it was Deep Ellum, kind of low rise and sprawled out but a ton of activity and foot traffic.  Broad Ripple also has recently had some larger infill apartment projects done though, and with the new BRT system I am guessing will intensify even more in the next 5-10 years.

 

Also in Indy, from BRipp to downtown, traveling College Avenue and Meridian, that whole area in between has a chance to really intensify and turn into a great avenue in the midwest built off of the BRT.

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^Yes and even College Hill might be too intense of a commercial strip to compare with Broad Ripple, talking density wise.  Oakley may be a better comparison.

 

I visited my friend in Dallas and the area he was at reminded me a bit more of Broad Ripple, it was Deep Ellum, kind of low rise and sprawled out but a ton of activity and foot traffic.  Broad Ripple also has recently had some larger infill apartment projects done though, and with the new BRT system I am guessing will intensify even more in the next 5-10 years.

 

Also in Indy, from BRipp to downtown, traveling College Avenue and Meridian, that whole area in between has a chance to really intensify and turn into a great avenue in the midwest built off of the BRT.

 

I don't see Broad Ripple and Deep Ellum comparison at all.  Deep Ellum is a lowrise warehouse district, more comparable to Mass Ave in Indy.  A more comparable Dallas example for Broad Ripple would be Lower Greenville or Bishops Arts District.  Both are more 30's-50's housing, quaint commercial street with newer infill.

 

/sorry, off topic


"You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers

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Bingo.


"You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers

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^Actually I was talking more about the Monon Trail in Indy, sorry I wasn't specific there!  It's an old rails to trail project and in the Broad Ripple area it seems to have a lot of redevelopment on going throughout.

 

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.8729554,-86.1421672,2a,75y,246.77h,93.33t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sRieu9DEIDJoGyUqv3ZLF2w!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

 

That looks quite nice, but wow, Indy's built environment is so incredibly underwhelming. I've always heard about Broad Ripple being one of Indy's better urban neighborhoods, but from doing a little traveling on that streetview link, it looks less urban than downtown Loveland! Hell, it almost looks rural. I simply do not understand the appeal of Indianapolis, I suppose.

 

Broad Ripple is certainly more impressive in person.  If I had to give a Cincinnati comparison, it would be like a whiter, vibrant, infill-happy, denser-commercial district version of College Hill in Cincinnati.  Basically a random older district surrounded by 1930's-1960's homes that is growing up...like Los Feliz! ;)

 

Interesting. It seems awfully low density though, with a lot of front facing surface parking and what not, at least in the area around where IAGuy linked to. Not too much of that to be found in Los Feliz, but I can see the residential similarities a bit. Didn't mean to derail the thread, I was just caught off guard to finally see Broad Ripple after hearing so much about it for years, only for it to look a bit like Loveland (though larger). For comparison:

 

Loveland: https://www.google.com/maps/@39.2680307,-84.2587564,3a,75y,84.22h,90.52t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sAbLk5h04SNk7bP29TUqpCw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

 

BR: https://www.google.com/maps/@39.8707747,-86.1421143,3a,75y,187.44h,85.94t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s5iV5g0tTIhBqLtctBKxnig!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

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Although the heights are similar, Broad Ripple is significantly larger than the 2 blocks of "downtown" that Loveland has. It's mostly one-story, but that's how a lot of commercial strips are in the New South and even out west in places like Portland.

 

Most of Broad Ripple looks like this: https://www.google.com/maps/@39.8696774,-86.1444522,3a,75y,70.26h,93.97t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sRt6DmOBIKU55t177vg_0TQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

 

It's also similar to the Highlands neighborhood in Louisville, although the Highlands has a lot more grand old homes in the immediate area, whereas the mansions of Indy are in Meridian Hills: https://www.google.com/maps/@38.2374412,-85.719246,3a,75y,314.06h,95.91t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sWNbvy5P21rtUzl29qJg32A!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

 

It's hard to get a proper sense of how bustling and crowded any of these neighborhoods actually are from Streetview, too. Something else to keep in mind.

 


“To an Ohio resident - wherever he lives - some other part of his state seems unreal.”

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^ Just when I thought I couldn't hate FC Cincinnati any more...

 

If you look at the list, regardless of FC Cincinnati's bid they are stripping the Wasson Way money

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New drone video of Wasson Way as it appears currently, April 2018:

That drone video shows the potential for the area west of 71 to get built up more, especially on the north side between the trail and Lexington Ave. Unfortunately, once the trail goes east of 71 there aren't as many opportunities for higher density projects, except maybe right around where the trail crosses Madison.

 

Have their been any design proposals for how the trail will cross Madison? Will they add a stoplight/signal just for pedestrian/bike crossing?  It's just a tough spot because a) there's a lot of traffic b) it's quite close to the Edwards intersection and c) it's even closer to the entrance to Rookwood which creates its own traffic challenges. If they got rid of the Valvoline Oil Change, maybe they could combine the Rookwood entrance with a Wasson Way crossing.

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I don't see why, it straddles the border between Cincinnati and Norwood so there's only a strip about 15' wide in either jurisdiction, and the right-of-way on the Cincinnati side doesn't belong to LaRosa's anyway. 

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Wasson Way lands funding for next phase

By Erin Caproni  – Digital Producer, Cincinnati Business Courier

 

The Wasson Way bike trail that’s expected to span more than 7 miles from Avondale to Newtown has secured funds needed to begin construction of a new portion.

Mayor John Cranley announced Tuesday that $100,000 in private funding from School Outfitters will be added to money allocated in last year’s city budget, $944,000 in federal transportation grant funding, $800,000 from the city’s railway tax credit revenue and $500,000 from the Ohio Department of Natural Resources to move forward with the second phase of the trail that’s expected to cost just less than $3 million.

 

More

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If John Cranley was as excited about our other multi-use trail projects the way he's excited about this one, we'd be the Amsterdam of the Midwest!

Edited by 10albersa

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John Cranley loves off-street trails. He hates on-street bike lanes and cycle tracks. Because bikes are recreational equipment, not transportation, and therefore don't belong on the streets.

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Cranley said his goal is to extend the trail to Ault Park before he leaves office at the end of 2021, which would require phase two to be complete by October.

 

He does prefer off-street trails, but he certainly doesn't back other off-street trail projects like he's backed this one.  This is the most ambitious I've seen him since taking office in term #2.

Edited by 10albersa

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Well for the time being they have metal barrier up where the path meets the sidewalk, requiring a torturous zig-zag navigation for cyclists.  So I have zero confidence that they're going to do anything even remotely accommodating, let alone with any sort of priority.  These people actually were championing the idea of removing the "humps" in the streets where the path crosses (like at Edwards and Monteith), which I called them out on a while back.  

20121011-082606.jpg

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6 hours ago, thebillshark said:

Have they figured out how they want to handle the Madison and Edwards road crossings yet?

 

No.  This project sucks because the mayor sucks and because the main wild-eyed character who has been pushing it for upwards of 10 years doesn't care about details or listen to anybody.  Dude barely rides a damn bike. 

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6 minutes ago, jmecklenborg said:

 

No.  This project sucks because the mayor sucks and because the main wild-eyed character who has been pushing it for upwards of 10 years doesn't care about details or listen to anybody.  Dude barely rides a damn bike. 

I’m impressed with what they’ve accomplished so far


www.cincinnatiideas.com

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What's been built so far is excessively "landscape designer-y" in that there's this wandering crushed limestone running path and landscaping that, again, zig-zags across the paved bike path making it more dangerous but which looks pretty on site plans and in photos.  I'm all for separate walking and bike paths, but even here they go from bike only to having a huge ditch in between, with excessive turns and obstacles.  It's very much not meant for transportation, it's a park for playing.  

Here's some photos from Flickr:  https://www.flickr.com/photos/5chw4r7z/with/42833033465/   

 

Wasson Way

  

Wasson Way

 

Wasson Way

 

Wasson Way

 

Wasson Way

 

Wasson Way

 

 

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12 hours ago, thebillshark said:

I’m impressed with what they’ve accomplished so far

 

They saw an abandoned railroad and said cheap * easy bike trail, except it's not so easy and cheap.  To be truly safe and attract maximum use they need to grade separate numerous intersections.  They're not doing it. 

 

Also, the leadership of this effort is obnoxious and in love with themselves. 

 

 

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I'm a fan of this project, and I think it has the potential to be a huge asset for the neighborhoods it goes through, especially if it actually is able to connect to the Little Miami trail. But I do agree that the leadership seems a bit obnoxious and disinterested in details. I asked how they were planning on addressing the Madison and Edwards mess of an intersection on the WW Facebook group a couple years ago, and was accused of being a trouble maker and negative. It was astounding, really, because I've been a big supporter of the project from the time it was announced (was living in Cincy at the time). Regardless, it will be nice to see that eyesore rail bridge over 71 painted and rehabbed, and I think the trail crossing the freeway will help to better connect Evanston and Norwood with Hyde Park, which is a good thing. If the apartment development on Madison by the Larosas ever goes forward, we could even have a bit of a bike TOD situation. I could definitely see Xavier students or employees living there and commuting via the bike trail, which would be pretty cool.

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^I know a number of folks who commute from downtown Dayton to Wright-Patt along the entirely grade-separated Mad River Trail (about 8 miles), so it definitely wouldn't be unusual at all for people to commute from Hyde Park to Xavier when (if) this trail gets done. It's just bizarre how badly the city has been dragging its feet on this project - up here we've had miles of rail trails for years that people just take them for granted. Very few sections of Dayton's rail trails cut through such a busy area as Wasson does, however. 


“To an Ohio resident - wherever he lives - some other part of his state seems unreal.”

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24 minutes ago, BigDipper 80 said:

^I know a number of folks who commute from downtown Dayton to Wright-Patt along the entirely grade-separated Mad River Trail (about 8 miles), so it definitely wouldn't be unusual at all for people to commute from Hyde Park to Xavier when (if) this trail gets done. It's just bizarre how badly the city has been dragging its feet on this project - up here we've had miles of rail trails for years that people just take them for granted. Very few sections of Dayton's rail trails cut through such a busy area as Wasson does, however. 

 

How has the city been dragging its feet on this project? In my opinion, it's been moving pretty fast. It was just an idea like 5 years ago, and it's already moving forward with phase 2. The Ohio River trail, connecting downtown to the Little Miami trail, has been talked about for decades and not much progress has been made.

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Cranley is rumored to have turned these two lots from the railroad property sale over to a donor, who is now listing each at nearly $200k.  I searched the auditor's site and these lots do not actually exist.  

https://www.sibcycline.com/Listing/CIN/1618830/3658-Columbus-Ave-Hyde-Park-OH-45208

 

https://www.sibcycline.com/Listing/CIN/1618831/3657-Columbus-Ave-Hyde-Park-OH-45208

 

Will this sale offset the price the city paid for the railroad property?  Does COAST care?  The Enquirer?  

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