Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Guest KJP

Income Inequality

Recommended Posts

LOL--I love the analysis.  San Fran needs to start hosting "ladies nights" to balance the demographics!  Just make sure those ladies...are actually ladies!

 

Real SF problems. :wink:

 

I was walking by Asia SF the other night and a group of clean, nicely dressed tourists had no idea what they were getting into...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

^Can't, she is on the lease. This happens all the time in SF. People are forced to live with exes because they can't get anywhere else to live and it becomes "who moves out?"- meaning a doubling or tripling of rent. Nasty stuff!

 

Smart "couples" get a 1-bed or 2-bed so that when they do break up, they can at least get some privacy. The worst situations are shared studios. You could have ex-girlfriend sleeping right next to you! "Hey Brian, this is Dan! We met at Elbo Room and he's a disgusting human being. Hope you don't mind the sound of us having sex in the same room!"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Throwing the elderly, the poor, the working class, and terminal cancer patients to the streets is a questionable move, but it's becoming the norm in San Francisco. Anything for money...

 

Spanning three decades in the Mission District, prominent San Francisco artist and curator René Yañez, who seeded and grew the annual Dia de Los Muertos celebration into a citywide event, is in the process of being evicted from his home of 35 years. His former wife, artist Yolanda Lopez, and his son, the artist Rio Yañez, are also included in the eviction notice.

 

“René and Yolanda helped paint the neighborhood into what it is today,” said Sarah Guerra, the operations manager at the Brava Theater and one of the many artists in the neighborhood who are organizing support efforts.

 

“There’s a lot going on that I am trying to reconcile with,” Rio Yañez, 33, added. ”Both of my parents have made a pretty large cultural investment with the city, but there’s not a lot of protection at this point.

 

“Rent control is what afforded my parents with the opportunity to live in this city and make art. Being an artist means they have no savings, no retirement, no health care. They live check to check. For their dedication to art, that’s where they are. With elderly people like them, with limited income, this essentially makes them homeless.”

 

The eviction comes at a particularly difficult time because both Yañez, who is 71, and his partner, Cynthia Wallis, have terminal cancer.

 

“It’s an outrage, it’s tragic, and sadly, it’s all too common in this merciless city that seems to care nothing for those who’ve helped make it what it once wanted to be,” Gómez-Peña wrote.

 

http://missionlocal.org/2013/10/royalty-of-the-mission-art-scene-faces-eviction/

 

http://missionlocal.org/2013/11/eviction-group-aims-to-put-housing-on-the-ballot/

 

What makes me sick in these situations is the lack of empathy among some of SF's new residents (read the comments section). You literally hear people say, "It's their fault they can't afford market rate apartments! Living here is not a right. If you can't afford to live here, leave!" Being rich doesn't give anyone the right be an asshole. That's what is disturbing about San Francisco. There is a growing culture here that celebrates douchebaggery if there is money behind it. Old San Francisco money doesn't seem to act like this as much. The Pacific Heights crowd still has some class. It's usually some of the 22-year-old millionaires and business development girls in the Mission that say these horrible things. They mean it too. Most of them come from wealthy families, went to expensive schools, and have never struggled to survive. They have no grit and no mercy for those less fortunate than them.

 

What's going on in San Francisco is not about envying the wealthy at all. It's about having some humanity.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There is basically no such thing as a "local business" anymore.  Pull back the curtain on your favor local restaurant or retailer and you'll find connections to the global supply chain.  Do the same with your favorite local professional services firm and you'll often be stunned at how far away they might have clients.

 

It works both ways of course.  Your typical manufacturer in this area has a bunch of customers in Mexico and China.  I know we do, and one of my old places did.  Our biggest was actually controversial during the '12 election because Bain owned them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Also you can't expect an army of nerds to be personable or understand cultures that aren't their own. Sure some are well-rounded, have people skills and have warm personalities, but face it, many have been in front of screens alone 16+ hours a day since elementary school. That's not the way to breed people persons.

 

Ummm.....have you noticed that our culture has been transformed into something the "nerds" of the 70s or 80s would relate to way more than the popular kids.  Online shopping?  Really?  "Gag me with a spoon"....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not sure why younger people don't understand that tons of things in the 80s were making fun of the 80s.  Any person with a brain knew what pop culture was generating was totally insane:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qb21lsCQ3EM\

 

Everything I see in the window of American Apparel looks like stuff art school students wore ironically to parties in the 90s. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not sure why younger people don't understand that tons of things in the 80s were making fun of the 80s.  Any person with a brain knew what pop culture was generating was totally insane:

 

It was an era where we were quite comfortable making fun of ourselves.  Even the President did it.  Remember "begin bombing in five minutes"?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not sure why younger people don't understand that tons of things in the 80s were making fun of the 80s.  Any person with a brain knew what pop culture was generating was totally insane:

 

It was an era where we were quite comfortable making fun of ourselves.  Even the President did it.  Remember "begin bombing in five minutes"?

 

The '90s took itself (not individuals, but the culture) as a whole took itself deadly seriously. Making parody of rap or grunge simply wasn't allowed. You can blame MTV for that at least partially. Once rap and grunge hit the network was dead serious all the time and still is to this day.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not sure why younger people don't understand that tons of things in the 80s were making fun of the 80s.  Any person with a brain knew what pop culture was generating was totally insane:

 

It was an era where we were quite comfortable making fun of ourselves.  Even the President did it.  Remember "begin bombing in five minutes"?

 

The '90s took itself (not individuals, but the culture) as a whole took itself deadly seriously. Making parody of rap or grunge simply wasn't allowed. You can blame MTV for that at least partially. Once rap and grunge hit the network was dead serious all the time and still is to this day.

 

EmptyVee jumped the shark with "Road Rules". perhaps the first "reality show".

 

But you're right, the only rap parody I can recall (outside of Rush Limbaugh, who did a couple) was "White White Baby" on "In Living Color".  "Political Correctness"  played a role in this.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh yeah, road rules.  Yawn!  MTV spent over a decade trying to find another Puck, but there could be only one. 

 

Rap was a parody of itself (the Fat Boys, early Beastie Boys) until Public Enemy, then gangster rap appeared and various cultural figures wanted it to be a Movement.  Arsenio Hall was a major player in this, as he and In Living Color destroyed Vanilla Ice, then turned their ire on any and all white entertainers.  Watch those old Arsenio clips -- he was eager to find his next victim, over and over again trying to corner white people into making some sort of comment he didn't approve of. 

 

The whole problem with Arsenio Hall and the other stuff from that time period is that it never actually identified the root causes of wealth inequity.  There was no discussion of the racially discriminatory lending practices of the FHA, for example -- instead any of that was overshadowed by Rush Limbaugh's post-Reagan welfare queen narrative. 

 

Meanwhile kids and teenagers who were (genetically?) programmed to side with whatever they perceived would "win" sided with black hip-hop culture, thus the sudden and dramatic split of white youth from the rock & roll to hypermasculine rap.  Early 1990s rap became the music of socially dominant whites who successfully tricked other whites into thinking they could successfully navigate black culture, should they ever even once in their life encounter a black person. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Real World came on before Road Rules, no?  Puck was on Real World..... SanFran iirc

 

One of my lab partners from high school was on the second Road Rules season

 

Question about "The Bay" for those who might know.  I have a friend who moved out there and he came back to visit with "The Bay" this and "The Bay" that.  He lives in Oakland.  Do people who actually live in SF call it "The Bay" or is that a term used by the metro population?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Real World came on before Road Rules, no?  Puck was on Real World..... SanFran iirc

 

One of my lab partners from high school was on the second Road Rules season

 

Question about "The Bay" for those who might know.  I have a friend who moved out there and he came back to visit with "The Bay" this and "The Bay" that.  He lives in Oakland.  Do people who actually live in SF call it "The Bay" or is that a term used by the metro population?

Real World came on before Road Rules, no?  Puck was on Real World..... SanFran iirc

 

One of my lab partners from high school was on the second Road Rules season

 

Question about "The Bay" for those who might know.  I have a friend who moved out there and he came back to visit with "The Bay" this and "The Bay" that.  He lives in Oakland.  Do people who actually live in SF call it "The Bay" or is that a term used by the metro population?

 

Yeah true, it was first. 

 

Unreal World was at least unintentionally funny sometimes.  There was some carryover "don't take ourselves too seriously here".  Road Rules was a graphic illustration of GC's point.  Earnestness as a simulation of seriousness.  And no, not "that" Earnest....who was never funny.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Question about "The Bay" for those who might know.  I have a friend who moved out there and he came back to visit with "The Bay" this and "The Bay" that.  He lives in Oakland.  Do people who actually live in SF call it "The Bay" or is that a term used by the metro population?

 

Yes, though it's more common in East Bay. In San Francisco, you say "SF" or "The City." The Bay would be used more when you're far away from home. I sometimes use it in Los Angeles when I'm down there since I've heard Angelenos say it.

 

In the metro area, people identify as City (San Francisco), Peninsula (San Mateo County), Marin (obvious), East Bay (Oakland, Berkeley, suburbs).

 

Then I think San Jose and Silicon Valley have their own terms. They're really separate metro areas that happen to be connected by suburbs. Of course the economies are all linked now with all the reverse commuters from San Francisco to the valley and "Man Jose."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks.  He seemed to be referring to the entire area (all areas you mention) as "the Bay."  He said it so frequently that we actually made a drinking game out of it one night we were out.  He had also grown a hipster beard since transferring out there last year, so we got to pick on him about that too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

^^^

 

When I lived in Southern California I knew several people who grew up there and they always called it the "the Bay Area" and definitely not just "the Bay." On a local level my understanding is what C-Dawg described above.

 

If your friend starts using the word "hella" all of the time then you will know you really lost him. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

^The entire area is referred to as "the Bay Area" both locally and nationally, but you're saying he dropped the "Area"?

 

Yes. It has been dropped. News media and stuff still calls it Bay Area, but kids don't watch traditional news. They get their information from Tech Crunch, Pando Daily, Reddit, Buzzfeed, and The Bold Italic. I hear it called "The Bay" all the time. Keep in mind hardly anyone in San Francisco (or Los Angeles) was born there...

 

Language and culture changes quick in the metro area as a result of the constant population turnover. There are a lot of terms in SF that don't exist elsewhere...hell, the gay community alone could write a dictionary. And tech workers have their own language too. It's a good way to differentiate yourself as "in the know" (Hollywood does the same thing- film productions have dictionaries of terms that outsiders don't know). San Francisco is a giant college town where each neighborhood is its own fraternity or sorority. Most people are basically the same (privileged, wealthy, somewhat liberal), but style of dress, language, etc. is taken very seriously. I have outfits for each neighborhood lest I get stared at. Marina outfits, Mission outfits, Haight outfits, Union Square outfits, FiDi outfits, Inner Richmond outfits, etc.

 

I have a theory that in monocultures (which San Francisco's social scene is becoming), people look to things other than race or income to differentiate themselves. San Francisco is becoming the most racially diverse place that isn't diverse (I think places like Toledo, Detroit, Buffalo, or Cleveland have way more cultural diversity). People can be pretty damn provincial. I know when I've worn nice clothes in the Mission, people have yelled "Marina" at me (and the whole concept of a term like "Marina" is ridiculous). That's why I had to purchase some hipster (hipster lite) outfits. I'm even thinking of growing a beard and buying plastic frame glasses for business reasons (though getting tats or piercing my face is never gonna happen). You've got to dress the part in San Francisco. Good God you do. How you talk and dress is a huge deal here. It feels like you're constantly being judged with a fine-toothed comb. It's taking the Tinder culture and applying it to real life. San Francisco blurs the line between online and offline. Imagine living life for the reason of fashioning your Tinder, Twitter, Facebook, Coffee Meets Bagel, etc. profiles to the absolute extreme. It is never-ending college...fun, but you eventually reach a point where you go, "I haven't been to a college in years, but I still live like a college kid."

 

I refer to San Francisco as "Greek Life for adults." And like Greek Life, you create new terms all the time. I think "The Bay" is part of this. I rarely hear people call it "Bay Area" anymore. There will be probably some much worse term on the near horizon. I'm guessing "Uber City" or "Tinder Town" or "Lean In Circle" or "Twitterville." In fact, The TL (Tenderloin) is now starting to be called The Twitterloin. At first I thought it was a joke, but it keeps popping up in more places. That's how big of an influence gentrification can have on a city. Once the money moves in, the names of places in San Francisco change. The Western Addition became NOPA (North of Panhandle). The Mission District is probably on its last leg as the remaining Latinos get evicted or have to leave (hit on in the articles posted). Parts of it could get a new name. They already have Dolores Heights.

 

Excelsior is becoming "Outer Mission" for marketing reasons (anything associated with the word "Mission" is gold). Mid-Market is also a new sub-neighborhood of Tenderloin and SOMA between 5th and Van Ness. Though it's got a very long way to full gentrification...at least 2-3 years. Apparently it used to be called Central Market.

 

And hella is still used, but it seems to be dying out. You won't hear that much in moneyed circles.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

^ wow somebody caught them a bad case of new move-in-itis lol!

 

^^^

 

When I lived in Southern California I knew several people who grew up there and they always called it the "the Bay Area" and definitely not just "the Bay." On a local level my understanding is what C-Dawg described above.

 

If your friend starts using the word "hella" all of the time then you will know you really lost him. 

 

i'll take hella and dewd over yeahyeahyeah anyday lol!

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

^ wow somebody caught them a bad case of new move-in-itis lol!

 

I moved to SF a few years ago. It was a different city then (and half the price). Many of my original friends and the families I lived with are gone. It was more relaxed, friendlier, and much easier to find places to live. All this crap is new. As a working class person, I feel like I got in just in the nick of time. Natives and older transplants have left in mass (and taken their culture with them). It's now getting rare to meet a youngish person in core neighborhoods who has lived here more than two years (Richmond and Sunset still have some surviving "Old San Francisco"). It's no joke when people say the new Twitter HQ and Facebook IPO caused a sea change in the city's culture and demographics. It's happening at warp speed. It's like Dubai without enough new construction to keep pace. So the only option is displacement. I can't even keep up with the trends here anymore...

 

http://www.businessinsider.com/twitter-ipo-created-1600-millionaires-2013-11

 

I just know the "Twitterloin" is getting better, and no place in America needed gentrification more than there. You had all these gorgeous historic buildings sitting vacant at the core of the city's transit network in an area surrounded by some of the wealthiest neighborhoods in America (Nob Hill, Union Square, Hayes Valley, Mission District, etc.). It looked like early stage Toledo/Detroit collapse and made no sense at all. The Tenderloin used to be a little slummy before Twitter renovated the old Furniture Mart. There was not much down there except a few great restaurants and nightclubs. Now you have Twitter, Square, Yammer, Zendesk, Zoosk, and dozens of new nightclubs and restaurants. 1,600 people at Twitter just became millionaires. Though I don't directly benefit from that, I agree with tech boosters that it's the greatest thing to ever happen to the Tenderloin. There is going to a massive change in just the next year. Around 2,000 new apartments in the area are coming online in less than a year, almost all of them targeted at Twitter workers, which keeps older housing more available for us mere mortals. Some of this gentrification stuff is a huge positive in San Francisco in terms of producing small businesses on dead streets (though housing pressure is very bad). As great as the Mission used to be, it's important to remember that it also had some gang presence and crime issues. Much of it was not very vibrant. Even North Beach had its dark days.

 

Oakland got really bad for a while (still does have major crime problems), but now you can barely recognize Downtown, Lake Merritt, Temescal, etc. Oakland is perhaps the place being most dramatically altered by this tech boom. San Francisco was already mostly gentrified and it's full. Oakland is where most people go when they can't find housing in San Francisco. Many tech workers have moved there and fixed up a lot of historic buildings that were sitting vacant. TOD is also through the roof right now in East Bay (though sadly more in the suburbs). With BART and 24-hour busses, Oakland has a serious edge over far-flung parts of SF and the Peninsula IMO. While housing prices and rents have recently skyrocketed there, the office market is still way cheaper than SF or Silicon Valley. Downtown Oakland is ripe for some big tech headquarters. It's a small downtown (reminds me a lot of Toledo), but the pieces are in place for not only the great residential market, but also a major office boom.

 

It's usually one extreme or the other across the metro area. There are rich neighborhoods and there are poor neighborhoods, but hardly anything in between. Oakland actually has a more dramatic divide than San Francisco (compare parts of East Oakland to Downtown or Lake Merritt). It could be some of the most extreme income inequality in the country...

 

I think what's happening in the Bay Area will eventually become the norm nationwide.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Fareed Zakaria had an interesting piece this morning on his GPS talkshow.  Switzerland is regarded as one of the most pro-business country in the world and recent outrage about the ratio of CEO/Executive pay to lowest paid workers has gained momentum.  A referendum was placed on the ballot that would have capped the ratio at 12:1.  It didn't pass and Zakaria said that was a good thing, it would have been a big mistake & led to top CEO talent & corporate HQ's leaving the country.  Something to think about.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Fareed Zakaria had an interesting piece this morning on his GPS talkshow.  Switzerland is regarded as one of the most pro-business country in the world and recent outrage about the ratio of CEO/Executive pay to lowest paid workers has gained momentum.  A referendum was placed on the ballot that would have capped the ratio at 12:1.  It didn't pass and Zakaria said that was a good thing, it would have been a big mistake & led to top CEO talent & corporate HQ's leaving the country.  Something to think about.

 

That number is so artificially low it almost had to be a stalking horse referendum. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If I'm not mistaken, Google is suburban and self contained (much like Progressive) and Twitter is very urbanist.  Many, many studies on what differences that makes could get made I would say.

 

I still kick myself hard when I recall that I was registered for the Google IPO but never bought any.  :blerg:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

^Most of Google's young workers live in the city, and shuttle down to the suburbs. They have some suburban workers, but usually the older ones that are married. Twitter's workforce is almost all young and lives in the city.

 

Apple, Google, Facebook, Genentech, etc. workers usually live near private shuttle stops to avoid driving on the 101. It's much easier to sit in gridlock on a bus then in your car where you can't do anything.

 

It’s not an exaggeration to say that the relationship between the traditionally anti-urban values of the suburbs and anti-suburban attitudes of the city is at least partially responsible for this change in San Francisco — and by extension the rest of urban America as it, too, confronts the relentless, tech-centric logic of Silicon Valley.

 

Take the public transportation provided by corporate shuttle buses from the likes of Apple, Google, Yahoo, Facebook, and others. It’s not news that these shuttles, and the big digital tech companies that run them, are changing the fabric of San Francisco as we’ve known it. What feels new is that it’s not enough to say that change is coming soon. It’s already, very much here.

 

Especially given how contentious these shuttles — and the tech industry’s effect — on San Francisco have become lately. They’re virtually (and arguably physically) dividing the city.

 

On one hand, some have called the shuttles “a vivid emblem of the tech boom’s stratifying effect in the Bay Area” because they allow the “techy progeny” of Silicon Valley to be “launched into SF proper.” That the shuttles are “alienating everyone who isn’t in technology” — or that there’s simply too much tech for one city to take.

 

Others are of the mind that it’s simply time to get over it and recognize a new reality; cities change, neighborhoods rise and fall. That in fact a paradox of Silicon Valley is in its “distributing meaningful equity” to ordinary people who wouldn’t otherwise access such wealth. (And then there’s the logic that wonders whether public transportation is yet another bit of infrastructure that should be upended by the Valley’s “meritocratic“ spirit.)

 

Whichever side of this issue you’re on, it’s clear that we’re looking at a reversal of the historical norm: The workers that used to live in residential suburbs while commuting to work in the city are now living in the city, while the largest technology companies are based in the suburbs and increasingly draw their labor supply from dense urban neighborhoods.

 

http://www.wired.com/opinion/2013/09/mapping-silicon-valleys-corporate-shuttle-problem/

 

*SF is now breaking $$2,554 Per Square Foot in neighborhoods adjacent to tech shuttles:

 

http://sf.curbed.com/archives/2013/11/25/last_weeks_three_biggest_sales_2554_per_square_foot.php#more

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Take the public transportation provided by corporate shuttle buses from the likes of Apple, Google, Yahoo, Facebook, and others. It’s not news that these shuttles, and the big digital tech companies that run them, are changing the fabric of San Francisco as we’ve known it. What feels new is that it’s not enough to say that change is coming soon. It’s already, very much here.

 

There's one thing I don't think anyone picked up on here....even me, who is sharply critical of the monopoly status of most urban transit systems.

 

These buses are not (?) "public transportation".  They are indeed "mass transit", but of a private sector variant developed in response to the inadequacy of the existing systems, and a desire/willingness to pay for better amenities and a degree of exclusiveness.

 

Aberration based on local circumstance?  Or the result of nontraditional demand for mass transit encountering the political mindset of those who run it?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd say it's a generation gap. The older tech workers (say over 35 in this case; that's not old but it's where techie demos shift) and company founders have been very suburban their entire lives. All "nerd" activity was concentrated in the 'burbs with almost no participation from urban dwellers or rural residents. Cities kind of scare them; too many people, non-nerds, suits and weirdos around. The younger tech workers for the most part like the city. They don't like areas with spotty internet or cell service, driving, jocks and former jocks that fill the 'burbs, sports bars, bigass trucks and SUVs, Nu-Country and all that. Whereas the older tech workers ignore that stuff as long as they get some space and "safety".

 

Also the older tech workers seem to really be into car collecting and racing as a hobby whereas the younger ones don't care. Wait about 20 years and see if the value of old collectible video games such as Stadium Events starts passing the value of vintage Ferarris and we'll know.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You're right.  When I was a kid, nerds were into HAM radio and model railroads.  A guy up the street had one of those antennaes(sp?) in the back yard.  Model railroads are inevitably in basements.  There were a lot of guys into RC racing and flying model airplanes and helicopters.  Again, a suburban-leaning activity.  I don't think I've seen a hipster controlling an RC Big Foot in a parade yet, but I'm sure that day will come. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don’t know if you all have noticed, but the world has been largely remade as per the “nerds” born during the 60s and early 70s.

 

Buy stuff, including clothes, from home?  Never go hang out anywhere like a mall?  Discover new music without going to concerts/clubs?  Play games at home instead of sports? Have interests outside the norm without dealing with corresponding social pressures?  Read a book without anyone knowing that (let alone what) you are reading?  Talk to people on the QT without family or friends knowing?  Indeed, minimizing extraneous interaction whenever possible.

 

The “cool kids” would have found this creepy.  The nerds would have like the idea….and did.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What's going on now with "tech nerds" is something different, because it appears to me that they didn't go through the physical harassment celebrated in Revenge of the Nerds, etc.  They have been free to indulge in pursuits that would have formerly gotten them stuffed in garbage cans.  That bad social environment was where much of the army of metalheads and punk kids came from.  There was for several decades a mix of music by oppressors and the oppressed on the radio.  Now it's almost like that dichotomy has gone away, no matter what Lady Gaga's contrived back story says. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

People pay their car bills before their house and credit cards?  Why is this reporter surprised?

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/bill-most-americans-pay-first-160426973.html

 

If you don't live AND work near public transportation, you are left with little choice.  Then, paying a minimum payment on a maxed-out credit card lets you charge $100-200 the next month whereas making a mortgage payment does not.  It seems like a lot of reporters and economists have never been broke! 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

People pay their car bills before their house and credit cards?  Why is this reporter surprised?

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/bill-most-americans-pay-first-160426973.html

If you don't live AND work near public transportation, you are left with little choice.  Then, paying a minimum payment on a maxed-out credit card lets you charge $100-200 the next month whereas making a mortgage payment does not.  It seems like a lot of reporters and economists have never been broke!

 

That is a well observed phenomenon. The best position is to have no debts other than your monthly utilities, taxes, and whatever you charge on a credit card. We do use a credit card as I hate to carry much cash. The newest car we have is a 2001 which is just about to turn 50,000 miles. At 12 years old it has been paid for at least 8 years. The house has been paid for at least that long also. We pay that credit card off monthly as I hate to pay interest. If you can keep your head above water in that manner, life is worth living and maybe enjoyable.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

People pay their car bills before their house and credit cards?  Why is this reporter surprised?

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/bill-most-americans-pay-first-160426973.html

If you don't live AND work near public transportation, you are left with little choice.  Then, paying a minimum payment on a maxed-out credit card lets you charge $100-200 the next month whereas making a mortgage payment does not.  It seems like a lot of reporters and economists have never been broke!

 

That is a well observed phenomenon. The best position is to have no debts other than your monthly utilities, taxes, and whatever you charge on a credit card. We do use a credit card as I hate to carry much cash. The newest car we have is a 2001 which is just about to turn 50,000 miles. At 12 years old it has been paid for at least 8 years. The house has been paid for at least that long also. We pay that credit card off monthly as I hate to pay interest. If you can keep your head above water in that manner, life is worth living and maybe enjoyable.

 

Agreed.  I'd also add that the second best position is to have manageable debts at low fixed rates over long terms with no prepayment penalties.  After years of swearing that I'd never be a homeowner (and even going so far as to re-share a lot of articles here from other sites about how it's not as wise an investment as old conventional wisdom posits), I find myself on the wrong end of a mortgage.  (Still no car payment, but my little '01 Altima is north of 160k now and it's starting to need work more regularly.)  But it's at 3.65%, and we bought a house that was well within our means.  Could be worse.

 

Also, from a financial jargon perspective: Those other things you mentioned aren't even really "debts."  Utilities, current taxes, and revolving credit lines (including credit cards) that you pay off every month are just accounts, not true "debts."  Sure, they're financial obligations, but not even that much different than the fact that you owe money to a bar between the time you get your drinks and the time you pay your bill, too.  (My financial institution offers its credit cards as a cash management service, not through its loan department.)  You can still get in all kinds of trouble with credit cards and taxes, and I actually think utility bills are what I'd prioritize first in a cash flow crunch, but it's hard for utilities to really drive someone to insolvency the way loan financing can.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Also the older tech workers seem to really be into car collecting and racing as a hobby whereas the younger ones don't care. Wait about 20 years and see if the value of old collectible video games such as Stadium Events starts passing the value of vintage Ferarris and we'll know.

 

Good point that I missed earlier.

 

I know the guy that, if I am not mistaken, runs Apple's video department.  (He's pretty low key and if anything would downplay his role).  He's got some very impressive vehicles. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

FEBRUARY 5, 2014 AT 3:35 PM

Biden: Unions 'only guys keeping the barbarians at the gate'

DAVID SHEPARDSON DETROIT NEWS WASHINGTON BUREAU

 

Washington — Vice President Joe Biden defended the role of organized labor, saying opponents are mounting a long-term war to attack unions.

 

“These guys on the right — they know without you there — they call every shot,” Biden told more than 1,000 UAW members and retirees on the final day on its four-day annual political conference here. “You guys are the only guys keeping the barbarians at the gate.”

 

He criticized right-to-work laws approved in Michigan and Indiana. “Did you ever think you would see a day when right to work would pass in Michigan?” Biden said. “It’s not a right to work.”

 

He held up a chart that said the fall in unionization had been a factor in the decline in wages.

 

READ MORE AT:

http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20140205/AUTO01/302050081


"Now you're not naive enough to think we're living in a democracy, are you Buddy? It's the free market. And you're a part of it." -- Gordon Gekko.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...