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Cincinnati: Downtown: Fourth & Race (Pogue Garage) Redevelopment

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I saw the crane coming down at "The Deacon" this weekend. Do different companies try to phase their projects to take advantage of one crane coming down, so that another can go up? if so, maybe that crane is headed here or to 8th and Main next.

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20 hours ago, taestell said:

Someone has started an unofficial Twitter account to monitor the construction progress at 4th & Race.

 

 

these are the hard-hitting updates we deserve. 

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Quote

I've watched them move dirt around, then they dug a hole. Today, the hole is filled.

 

Well, that IS technically correct (the best kind of correct). 

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23 minutes ago, Lucas_uLsac said:

Does this mean downtown will have possibly 3 active cranes over the summer? I can't even imagine when was the last time that happened. 

I think for a very short time there will be (4th and Race, 8th and main and Court and Walnut) but Court and Walnut is only 2-3 floors from being topped out so I only give that crane a couple more weeks. 

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2 hours ago, Lucas_uLsac said:

Does this mean downtown will have possibly 3 active cranes over the summer? I can't even imagine when was the last time that happened. 

 

Like 1983.  Those were all office buildings, whereas these are all residential. 

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2 hours ago, Ucgrad2015 said:

I think for a very short time there will be (4th and Race, 8th and main and Court and Walnut) but Court and Walnut is only 2-3 floors from being topped out so I only give that crane a couple more weeks. 

 

Let's hope the stars align and someone with a camera can capture some photos. I might have to make a special trip to Cincy myself. 

 

29 minutes ago, jmecklenborg said:

 

Like 1983.  Those were all office buildings, whereas these are all residential. 

 

That's what I was guessing if possible. Who could've guessed even 5 years ago that Cincinnati would have possibly 3 cranes up at once and they'd all be for residential projects. 

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1 hour ago, jmecklenborg said:

 

Like 1983.  Those were all office buildings, whereas these are all residential. 

 

And the summer of 2014:

 

14832676623_9fc96aa3f1_h.jpg

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6 hours ago, taestell said:

 

And the summer of 2014:

 

14832676623_9fc96aa3f1_h.jpg

Two of those cranes I believe were for one building (84.51) if I remember correctly.

 

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Interesting location for the crane base. Is there only one on the site? 

 

It looks like Court and Walnut will have a tower crane till the end of this month at the earliest so there could be a few days where they all will be up at the same time.


“All truly great thoughts are conceived while walking.”
-Friedrich Nietzsche

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Sitting at midchi, multiple crane pieces have been passing by, maybe some real progress next week. 

383A4765-FE45-4709-B7D0-B428C34159E0.jpeg

Edited by lobanio0

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On 3/7/2019 at 11:56 PM, taestell said:

 

And the summer of 2014:

 

14832676623_9fc96aa3f1_h.jpg

 

That is exactly three more cranes than Dayton has at the moment... amazing to see the amount of progress that has been made in downtown Cincy alone over the past 5-6 years, much less the rest of the city! Hoping the crane bug will come north.

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To get back on topic... I wonder how this development would have been different if Saks would have decided to move to Kenwood Collection a couple years ago?

IMO they without a doubt made the right choice to stay but whether or not downtown is better off with them remaining is a whole different issue.

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51 minutes ago, SWOH said:

To get back on topic... I wonder how this development would have been different if Saks would have decided to move to Kenwood Collection a couple years ago?

IMO they without a doubt made the right choice to stay but whether or not downtown is better off with them remaining is a whole different issue.

I do not believe e it would have made a huge different, it would honestly prolly just be empty storefront for a few years. Hoping they are planning on staying since in the next few years there will be a few more hundred residents in that area of downtown with 4th and Race and hopefully a residential component of the old Macy’s development.

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3 hours ago, SWOH said:

 

That is exactly three more cranes than Dayton has at the moment... amazing to see the amount of progress that has been made in downtown Cincy alone over the past 5-6 years, much less the rest of the city! Hoping the crane bug will come north.

 

 

Dayton is the epitome of ghost town. It never ceases to amaze me how dead it is during weekday rush hour, and how even more so during the weekend. Dayton's got a lot of good architectural bones, but the many empty storefronts and lack of street traffic is eerie to say the least. 

 

I'm kind of curious if we will be able to see a record 4 cranes with the construction of the West end fcc stadium? Wonder what the timing construction schedule is to bring a crane in for that project?

Edited by troeros

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10 hours ago, troeros said:

 

 

Dayton is the epitome of ghost town. It never ceases to amaze me how dead it is during weekday rush hour, and how even more so during the weekend. Dayton's got a lot of good architectural bones, but the many empty storefronts and lack of street traffic is eerie to say the least. 

 

I'm kind of curious if we will be able to see a record 4 cranes with the construction of the West end fcc stadium? Wonder what the timing construction schedule is to bring a crane in for that project?

I would highly doubt that the crane for or maybe even cranes for the FCC stadium will be up before the one at  Court and Walnut is taken down. I’d give that maybe 2 weeks before it’s dismantled.

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On 3/17/2019 at 1:12 AM, troeros said:

 

 

Dayton is the epitome of ghost town. It never ceases to amaze me how dead it is during weekday rush hour, and how even more so during the weekend. Dayton's got a lot of good architectural bones, but the many empty storefronts and lack of street traffic is eerie to say the least. 

 

I'm kind of curious if we will be able to see a record 4 cranes with the construction of the West end fcc stadium? Wonder what the timing construction schedule is to bring a crane in for that project?

 

Dayton is doing awhile lot better than you probably remember... downtown has been booming over the past couple of years.

 

The issue with Dayton is it doesn’t have a strong CBD office community like Cincinnati. During the depths of the recession the office vacancy rate downtown just about hit 40%!

 

Because of that, most of the project’s downtown are refurbishment and infill, which is awesome tbh. It preserves what we already have, which is arguably better built than a lot of new stuff. Andthere was one crane downtown until recently with Caresource’s new second building at the former Patterson Co-Op High site.

 

It would be awesome to see interest in a new mid rise or high rise building downtown, something that’s more than 6 or 7 stories, to sit on one of the parking lots downtown that we have. 

 

Glad to see Cincinnati is filling in their downtown parking lots with new buildings

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On 3/16/2019 at 10:57 PM, Ucgrad2015 said:

I do not believe e it would have made a huge different, it would honestly prolly just be empty storefront for a few years. Hoping they are planning on staying since in the next few years there will be a few more hundred residents in that area of downtown with 4th and Race and hopefully a residential component of the old Macy’s development.

 

Makes sense, to me it seems like it would not be smart for Saks to leave now since they are in the middle of a booming area.... unlike 10 years ago when that was not the case.

 

 

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3 hours ago, SWOH said:

 

Makes sense, to me it seems like it would not be smart for Saks to leave now since they are in the middle of a booming area.... unlike 10 years ago when that was not the case.

 

 

Saks is in conversation with Brookfield about moving to Kenwood Towne Center. Its ongoing early conversation of a smaller two story store to be placed where the older parking garage is located along the Nordstrom Wing. With Tiffanys, Louis Vuitton, and now Gucci opening in Kenwood, just makes the right fit. The real issue though if Saks leaves it creates a weird situation since the main ballroom for Hyatt sits above Saks store now. 

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30 minutes ago, savadams13 said:

Saks is in conversation with Brookfield about moving to Kenwood Towne Center. Its ongoing early conversation of a smaller two story store to be placed where the older parking garage is located along the Nordstrom Wing. With Tiffanys, Louis Vuitton, and now Gucci opening in Kenwood, just makes the right fit. The real issue though if Saks leaves it creates a weird situation since the main ballroom for Hyatt sits above Saks store now. 

Gucci is coming to Kenwood? I haven’t seen that

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43 minutes ago, savadams13 said:

Saks is in conversation with Brookfield about moving to Kenwood Towne Center. Its ongoing early conversation of a smaller two story store to be placed where the older parking garage is located along the Nordstrom Wing. With Tiffanys, Louis Vuitton, and now Gucci opening in Kenwood, just makes the right fit. The real issue though if Saks leaves it creates a weird situation since the main ballroom for Hyatt sits above Saks store now. 

 

Parking is already bad enough on the weekend and especially during holidays...not sure how getting rid of parking will be a positive experience for Kenwood mall customers...

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2 hours ago, troeros said:

 

Parking is already bad enough on the weekend and especially during holidays...not sure how getting rid of parking will be a positive experience for Kenwood mall customers...

The plan would call for another parking garage to be built between macys and the new saks location. 

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Saks moving to Kenwood makes all the sense in the world for them. The writing has been on the walls for years, but once Tiffany left for Kenwood and they opened a stand alone LV store there (formerly the only LV store in the market was a store within Saks) it all but signaled to me that Saks was either also going to move to Kenwood or leave the market entirely, like they did in Pittsburgh. It will be great for Kenwood, but will create another big hole downtown when they leave. I hope the city is already thinking about how to quickly redevelop the site when they do go.

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46 minutes ago, edale said:

Saks moving to Kenwood makes all the sense in the world for them. The writing has been on the walls for years, but once Tiffany left for Kenwood and they opened a stand alone LV store there (formerly the only LV store in the market was a store within Saks) it all but signaled to me that Saks was either also going to move to Kenwood or leave the market entirely, like they did in Pittsburgh. It will be great for Kenwood, but will create another big hole downtown when they leave. I hope the city is already thinking about how to quickly redevelop the site when they do go.

 

Is saks not already a hole though?

 

It operates only for 8 hours of the day, closes at 6pm,  and sells clothes that only the top 20 percent of the top earning income bracket can afford. 

 

Give me a mixed use site with small local botiques/bars/resturaunts, etc and a residential tower built above.

 

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3 hours ago, troeros said:

 

Is saks not already a hole though?

 

It operates only for 8 hours of the day, closes at 6pm,  and sells clothes that only the top 20 percent of the top earning income bracket can afford. 

 

Give me a mixed use site with small local botiques/bars/resturaunts, etc and a residential tower built above.

 

It would have to be very unique project, because of the location of the Hyatt Ballroom and conference spaces that sit above the existing Saks store. 

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37 minutes ago, taestell said:

Kenwood is going to turn into one of those jam-packed malls that you see in places like California where the developer replaces every parking lot with a parking garage or new store, until the development reaches all four sides of their property

Not sure if you or the other UOers saw this, but I think you hit the nail on the head with this comment:

 

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/local/sycamore-township/2018/12/04/mixed-use-project-built-across-kenwood-towne-centre/2191832002/

 

Especially for OH, that is some extreme suburban density....

248 apartments, 125 hotel rooms, a six-story office building,

20,000 square feet of retail & 1240 parking spaces in two garages

On seven acres (~300,000 square feet) is intense!

 

 

Edited by SWOH

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5 minutes ago, savadams13 said:

It would have to be very unique project, because of the location of the Hyatt Ballroom and conference spaces that sit above the existing Saks store. 

 

Is it likely Hyatt would be OK with sacrificing their ballroom and the whole building would be demolished?

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8 minutes ago, SWOH said:

 

Is it likely Hyatt would be OK with sacrificing their ballroom and the whole building would be demolished?

If the Hyatt Ballroom and meeting spaces were drab and outdated, or never booked I could see them parting ways with them until new could be built, but the utilization rate for there rental spaces is very high. Most events at the Convention center do breakout events or post events in the Hyatt over Millennium or Hilton.

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For the uninformed, what is the difference between these cranes and the one for Kroger? The horizontal section sits on to instead of being in a "cross" pattern. Why?

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On 3/19/2019 at 10:44 AM, Rabbit Hash said:

For the uninformed, what is the difference between these cranes and the one for Kroger? The horizontal section sits on to instead of being in a "cross" pattern. Why?

Bueller...???

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I love that this crane is visible from my office in Covington.  Wish the building was going to be tall enough to add to the skyline.  

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53 minutes ago, JYP said:

 

I don't know the answer but this may help:

https://www.cranecrews.com/crane-blog/types-of-tower-cranes

 

I'm not an expert and I know nothing about this particular project, but I think the rental fees for tower cranes can fluctuate based upon availability and timing. So these two sites may have different types of cranes simply because that was the type that was nearby and available for a better rate at the time.

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The blog posted above about types of cranes said the flat-top kind (like at 4/Race) is better for multi-crane project sites, and 4/Race is getting a second crane in April (this was mentioned in the last email-update sent out by 3CDC for the project). And the Kroger site only has one crane so I would think that is why. 

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