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Cincinnati: Downtown: Fourth & Race (Pogue Garage) Redevelopment

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3 hours ago, SWOH said:

 

Makes sense, to me it seems like it would not be smart for Saks to leave now since they are in the middle of a booming area.... unlike 10 years ago when that was not the case.

 

 

Saks is in conversation with Brookfield about moving to Kenwood Towne Center. Its ongoing early conversation of a smaller two story store to be placed where the older parking garage is located along the Nordstrom Wing. With Tiffanys, Louis Vuitton, and now Gucci opening in Kenwood, just makes the right fit. The real issue though if Saks leaves it creates a weird situation since the main ballroom for Hyatt sits above Saks store now. 

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30 minutes ago, savadams13 said:

Saks is in conversation with Brookfield about moving to Kenwood Towne Center. Its ongoing early conversation of a smaller two story store to be placed where the older parking garage is located along the Nordstrom Wing. With Tiffanys, Louis Vuitton, and now Gucci opening in Kenwood, just makes the right fit. The real issue though if Saks leaves it creates a weird situation since the main ballroom for Hyatt sits above Saks store now. 

Gucci is coming to Kenwood? I haven’t seen that

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43 minutes ago, savadams13 said:

Saks is in conversation with Brookfield about moving to Kenwood Towne Center. Its ongoing early conversation of a smaller two story store to be placed where the older parking garage is located along the Nordstrom Wing. With Tiffanys, Louis Vuitton, and now Gucci opening in Kenwood, just makes the right fit. The real issue though if Saks leaves it creates a weird situation since the main ballroom for Hyatt sits above Saks store now. 

 

Parking is already bad enough on the weekend and especially during holidays...not sure how getting rid of parking will be a positive experience for Kenwood mall customers...

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2 hours ago, troeros said:

 

Parking is already bad enough on the weekend and especially during holidays...not sure how getting rid of parking will be a positive experience for Kenwood mall customers...

The plan would call for another parking garage to be built between macys and the new saks location. 

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Saks moving to Kenwood makes all the sense in the world for them. The writing has been on the walls for years, but once Tiffany left for Kenwood and they opened a stand alone LV store there (formerly the only LV store in the market was a store within Saks) it all but signaled to me that Saks was either also going to move to Kenwood or leave the market entirely, like they did in Pittsburgh. It will be great for Kenwood, but will create another big hole downtown when they leave. I hope the city is already thinking about how to quickly redevelop the site when they do go.

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46 minutes ago, edale said:

Saks moving to Kenwood makes all the sense in the world for them. The writing has been on the walls for years, but once Tiffany left for Kenwood and they opened a stand alone LV store there (formerly the only LV store in the market was a store within Saks) it all but signaled to me that Saks was either also going to move to Kenwood or leave the market entirely, like they did in Pittsburgh. It will be great for Kenwood, but will create another big hole downtown when they leave. I hope the city is already thinking about how to quickly redevelop the site when they do go.

 

Is saks not already a hole though?

 

It operates only for 8 hours of the day, closes at 6pm,  and sells clothes that only the top 20 percent of the top earning income bracket can afford. 

 

Give me a mixed use site with small local botiques/bars/resturaunts, etc and a residential tower built above.

 

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3 hours ago, troeros said:

 

Is saks not already a hole though?

 

It operates only for 8 hours of the day, closes at 6pm,  and sells clothes that only the top 20 percent of the top earning income bracket can afford. 

 

Give me a mixed use site with small local botiques/bars/resturaunts, etc and a residential tower built above.

 

It would have to be very unique project, because of the location of the Hyatt Ballroom and conference spaces that sit above the existing Saks store. 

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37 minutes ago, taestell said:

Kenwood is going to turn into one of those jam-packed malls that you see in places like California where the developer replaces every parking lot with a parking garage or new store, until the development reaches all four sides of their property

Not sure if you or the other UOers saw this, but I think you hit the nail on the head with this comment:

 

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/local/sycamore-township/2018/12/04/mixed-use-project-built-across-kenwood-towne-centre/2191832002/

 

Especially for OH, that is some extreme suburban density....

248 apartments, 125 hotel rooms, a six-story office building,

20,000 square feet of retail & 1240 parking spaces in two garages

On seven acres (~300,000 square feet) is intense!

 

 

Edited by SWOH

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5 minutes ago, savadams13 said:

It would have to be very unique project, because of the location of the Hyatt Ballroom and conference spaces that sit above the existing Saks store. 

 

Is it likely Hyatt would be OK with sacrificing their ballroom and the whole building would be demolished?

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8 minutes ago, SWOH said:

 

Is it likely Hyatt would be OK with sacrificing their ballroom and the whole building would be demolished?

If the Hyatt Ballroom and meeting spaces were drab and outdated, or never booked I could see them parting ways with them until new could be built, but the utilization rate for there rental spaces is very high. Most events at the Convention center do breakout events or post events in the Hyatt over Millennium or Hilton.

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For the uninformed, what is the difference between these cranes and the one for Kroger? The horizontal section sits on to instead of being in a "cross" pattern. Why?

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On 3/19/2019 at 10:44 AM, Rabbit Hash said:

For the uninformed, what is the difference between these cranes and the one for Kroger? The horizontal section sits on to instead of being in a "cross" pattern. Why?

Bueller...???

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I love that this crane is visible from my office in Covington.  Wish the building was going to be tall enough to add to the skyline.  

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53 minutes ago, JYP said:

 

I don't know the answer but this may help:

https://www.cranecrews.com/crane-blog/types-of-tower-cranes

 

I'm not an expert and I know nothing about this particular project, but I think the rental fees for tower cranes can fluctuate based upon availability and timing. So these two sites may have different types of cranes simply because that was the type that was nearby and available for a better rate at the time.

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The blog posted above about types of cranes said the flat-top kind (like at 4/Race) is better for multi-crane project sites, and 4/Race is getting a second crane in April (this was mentioned in the last email-update sent out by 3CDC for the project). And the Kroger site only has one crane so I would think that is why. 

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1 hour ago, Cincy513 said:

I love that this crane is visible from my office in Covington.  Wish the building was going to be tall enough to add to the skyline.  

It may not be very tall but I think you’ll be able to see a little bit of it from the cut in the hill/Devou park (if one knows where to look) and should for sure be able to see it from Price Hill. It will for sure add some decent density to downtown. 

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28 minutes ago, jmecklenborg said:

Is this thing going to be taller than the parking garage it replaced?

 

Uh huh.


“All truly great thoughts are conceived while walking.”
-Friedrich Nietzsche

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On 3/18/2019 at 7:23 AM, savadams13 said:

Saks is in conversation with Brookfield about moving to Kenwood Towne Center. Its ongoing early conversation of a smaller two story store to be placed where the older parking garage is located along the Nordstrom Wing. With Tiffanys, Louis Vuitton, and now Gucci opening in Kenwood, just makes the right fit. The real issue though if Saks leaves it creates a weird situation since the main ballroom for Hyatt sits above Saks store now. 

Where are you getting this info? The company that owns Saks is struggling financially, it doesn't make much for them to put the money into opening a new location in the city when they don't pay rent for the current one and it's a ghost town anyway. I've also heard nothing about Gucci entering the market. 

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1 hour ago, jmecklenborg said:

Is this thing going to be taller than the parking garage it replaced?

Pogue garage was I’m assuming between 100-120 ft due to most garage floor heights being between 10-12ft. The new tower will be probobly be between 170-190 ft.

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1 hour ago, 513to424 said:

Where are you getting this info? The company that owns Saks is struggling financially, it doesn't make much for them to put the money into opening a new location in the city when they don't pay rent for the current one and it's a ghost town anyway. I've also heard nothing about Gucci entering the market. 

HBC is not struggling financially. Brookfield is looking into a mutual agreement of building the store out and Saks doing the interior fit out. Happens alot when malls want to attract certain retailers and dept stores. A lot of my knowledge comes from very reliable sources, so I don't always reveal my source. no need to kill the information pipeline. 

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1 hour ago, savadams13 said:

HBC is not struggling financially. Brookfield is looking into a mutual agreement of building the store out and Saks doing the interior fit out. Happens alot when malls want to attract certain retailers and dept stores. A lot of my knowledge comes from very reliable sources, so I don't always reveal my source. no need to kill the information pipeline. 

 

Interesting...kenwood mall stll has quite a few vacant store fronts inside the mall, and have struggled to find a new tenant for almost 3 years now for the old gap store on the lower level. 

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I am excited to see this one go up. People were talking about height earlier, I figured this would be in the 250 foot range?

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55 minutes ago, IAGuy39 said:

I am excited to see this one go up. People were talking about height earlier, I figured this would be in the 250 foot range?

It won’t be that tall. Court and Walnut is 18 floors and around 250, maybe a little higher. Since this project is only 14 floors I would say at max the height would be 200ft. 

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1 hour ago, IAGuy39 said:

I am excited to see this one go up. People were talking about height earlier, I figured this would be in the 250 foot range?

 The Stock Yards Bank & Trust Building across the street from this project is 14 floors. Im assuming it would be about as tall as that. Definitely not a skyline changer, but considering its massing of half the block, it'll have a small noticeable impact and create some nice layering. Especially from the west. 

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I won't complain about any infill, but I really wish all these new towers (Court & Walnut, 8th & Main, 4th & Race) were over 20 stories. Perhaps the next wave of projects will bring some height. 

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26 minutes ago, edale said:

I won't complain about any infill, but I really wish all these new towers (Court & Walnut, 8th & Main, 4th & Race) were over 20 stories. Perhaps the next wave of projects will bring some height. 

 

Silver lining is that they won't suck up all the downtown housing demand and we will get more parking lots built on. 

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33 minutes ago, edale said:

I won't complain about any infill, but I really wish all these new towers (Court & Walnut, 8th & Main, 4th & Race) were over 20 stories. Perhaps the next wave of projects will bring some height. 

I would assume that the Macy’s development and a hopefully new convention hotel will add to the skyline. Hopefully the hotel will be tall enough to even out the skyline on that side of downtown and that the Macy’s development will rise above the Hilton. 

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12 minutes ago, DEPACincy said:

Silver lining is that they won't suck up all the downtown housing demand and we will get more parking lots built on. 

Agreed. If I had to choose (and this isn't entirely a false choice), I'd much rather have complete street walls and fully built out blocks at lower heights, as opposed to adding a few 20+ story towers to the skyline. 

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I still can't wait for the day when new construction development isn't solely dominated by 3cdc in this city. Nashville, besides there fabricated country music culture is no different than cincy. They have less fortune 500 companies, less historical gems (I mean otr in itself is posed to be the next french quarters in the next 15 years imo), and there public transit equally sucks and there roads are congested as hell. But when you drive by there city, and see there skyline it looks like skyscraper city.

 

Every which way you look there's a skyscraper....Meanwhile, here in cincy we throw a party if there's 3 simultaneously. That's backwards. I'm not complaining, I'm happy that OTR is being reinvested towards again, we have the street car (even though it should be extended), we have new construction being built downtown...That's all great! But as a passionate cincinnatian it just hurts to see a city that was basically the same size as us 5-7 years ago, being MASSIVELY focused on by developers from all over the world, growing at an enormous rate. When you go to nashville, its as if it's becoming an international US City full of tourists and expats. Every which way you see people from different nations, speaking different languages, from different religions, etc....It's nuts. Thats how a TRUE city should be. A melting pot. Meanwhile, in cincy you literally feel like you've seen that person once before (don't even get me started on how segregated our neighborhoods are, and how its truly disheartening to see such lack of multiculturism in the urban core). It's such a big city-small village type of town. 

 

 It just sucks because it makes you wonder if cincinnati's day will ever come..Sometimes I feel like we are on the cusp, but then sometimes I feel like we aren't ever destined to become anything than we already are. 

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I believe Nashville drastically reduced its parking requirements within the city limits, resulting in it to become much cheaper to build. Cincy parking requirements for CBD definitely need to be updated after all the parking the banks and 3CDC have added the past ten years. 

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46 minutes ago, lobanio0 said:

I believe Nashville drastically reduced its parking requirements within the city limits, resulting in it to become much cheaper to build. Cincy parking requirements for CBD definitely need to be updated after all the parking the banks and 3CDC have added the past ten years. 

 

Cincinnati eliminated parking requirements downtown and in the basin neighborhoods. That's why 8th and Main is a ~150 unit apartment building being built with ~5 parking spaces. 

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