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Cincinnati: Downtown: Fourth & Race (Pogue Garage) Redevelopment

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We lost this thread during the recent website outage, although other than funding being secured, not much else has been in the news.

 

 

Pogue’s Garage to Make Way for 30-Story Residential Tower, Grocery Store

By Randy A. Simes ― February 20, 2013

 

Cincinnati City Manager Milton Dohoney briefed City Council’s Budget & Finance Committee of the specifics of a plan to modernize and lease some of the city’s parking assets. Part of the immediate $92 million infusion, as part of the plan, would be used to spark the redevelopment of Tower Place Mall and Pogue’s Garage.

 

Dohoney stated that the vacant Tower Place Mall would be converted into a 500-space parking garage, with 20,000 square feet of street-level commercial spaces fronting onto Race and Fourth Streets.

 

“Residential is a huge factor in the ability to attract and retain retail, but what retail really wants is customers,” explained David Ginsburg, President/CEO of Downtown Cincinnati Incorporated (DCI), with regards to the state of the center city’s retail scene.

 

Cont

 

 

towerplacerender-900.jpg


"It's just fate, as usual, keeping its bargain and screwing us in the fine print..." - John Crichton

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Rumors are a former Marsh executive is behind the grocery store.


"It's just fate, as usual, keeping its bargain and screwing us in the fine print..." - John Crichton

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I've been told construction will start early next year.


“All truly great thoughts are conceived while walking.”
-Friedrich Nietzsche

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Rabbit Hash--many thanks for the rendering of the proposed 4th & Race residential tower as it might appear from a distance.  Obviously, the structure's no "Donald Trump" wannabe, but it's gonna be an impressive addition to Cincinnati's skyline and its CBD.  (I can't wait!)

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Yep.  That's the only one I've done above.  I like those others and I think they contradict my assertion in my blog post that the effect will be minimal on the skyline. 

 

Would you (or jmicha) or whomever the artist is give permission for me to add those to the blog post?  With attribution of course. 

 

We have some wonderful talent here on U/O.

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Think about the sea-change of construction this (and DH) represents.  For the better part of thirty years, all/most new construction has been on the Eastern end of the CBD.

 

Between Race and Walnut = The old core.

East of Walnut = The new core.

West of Race = We'll see...

 

Heck, build a 30 story res tower where the spinning clock is and a 30 story biz tower on the horrible Plum and Fourth lot and this city starts to get some pretty broad shoulders.

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Is the height represented in these renderings official?

 

Mine is an estimation of an estimation.  I used NP as a reference at 370 feet.  It looks like the two drawings are taller than my PS job.

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Think about the sea-change of construction this (and DH) represents.  For the better part of thirty years, all/most new construction has been on the Eastern end of the CBD.

 

Between Race and Walnut = The old core.

East of Walnut = The new core.

West of Race = We'll see...

 

Heck, build a 30 story res tower where the spinning clock is and a 30 story biz tower on the horrible Plum and Fourth lot and this city starts to get some pretty broad shoulders.

Think about the sea-change of construction this (and DH) represents.  For the better part of thirty years, all/most new construction has been on the Eastern end of the CBD.

 

Between Race and Walnut = The old core.

East of Walnut = The new core.

West of Race = We'll see...

 

Heck, build a 30 story res tower where the spinning clock is and a 30 story biz tower on the horrible Plum and Fourth lot and this city starts to get some pretty broad shoulders.

 

True, but 312 Elm, 312 Plum, 311 Elm renovation, 302 W Third Neyer renovation, Delta call center on W. 7th,

Greenwich, Grammercy, Groton, etc/ well within that span.

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Think about the sea-change of construction this (and DH) represents.  For the better part of thirty years, all/most new construction has been on the Eastern end of the CBD.

 

Between Race and Walnut = The old core.

East of Walnut = The new core.

West of Race = We'll see...

 

Heck, build a 30 story res tower where the spinning clock is and a 30 story biz tower on the horrible Plum and Fourth lot and this city starts to get some pretty broad shoulders.

Think about the sea-change of construction this (and DH) represents.  For the better part of thirty years, all/most new construction has been on the Eastern end of the CBD.

 

Between Race and Walnut = The old core.

East of Walnut = The new core.

West of Race = We'll see...

 

Heck, build a 30 story res tower where the spinning clock is and a 30 story biz tower on the horrible Plum and Fourth lot and this city starts to get some pretty broad shoulders.

 

True, but 312 Elm, 312 Plum, 311 Elm renovation, 302 W Third Neyer renovation, Delta call center on W. 7th,

Greenwich, Grammercy, Groton, etc/ well within that span.

 

Didn't forget about those.  But I would contend none are as high on the physical or prestige scale that most all of East of Walnut projects were/are.  Except for maybe 312 Elm.

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For anyone interested, I also made some Google Earth renderings including other proposed and under construction projects like The Banks and the W&S Tower (used 450' for its height). The 4th and Race tower is 375' in these renderings and the Dunnhumby Centre pokes through using its actual height as released.

 

9567958072_bb0a8f1e3e_b.jpg

 

9567958136_705161ac22_b.jpg

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Yes. I used a height of around 200 feet for the tower portion of it. I obviously have absolutely no clue what height it would be so I just threw something in.

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I think it will be interesting to see what the top of this building will look like- it seems there is a two story PH/Mech space to one side of the the roof... could have a cool light feature, at the very least will provide a little asymmetry to the structure.

 

I like the added height this project brings to the west...

And on a side note: I really hope/wish the BSB alignment on the Cincy side would allow for the city grid to be reclaimed more to the west.  I would love to see some more height around City Hall or even all the way out toward Union Terminal... but I digress.

 

 

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I still yearn to see something similar in height to QCS on the lot at 5th and Plum or the Millenium site to help balance things out. Getting some of those convention center garages underground wouldn't hurt either.

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I like the BSB visualization the most, and really wish we could see another angle of the building.  But I just decided to superimposed the released "dusk" render into the GoogleEarth shot... not too bad... I did take the height down a bit; from the dusk render it looks a little bit shorter, than 375ft. 

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Thanks for tacking the rendering on.

 

Any way you could add phases 1 & two of the banks with renderings? That's basically what we would have in 2015.  Would be cool to see.

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Does anyone know if this project is going to move forward now that Cranley has successfully cancelled the parking deal? I think I recall that the city was able to fund it even without the parking money.

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The radio said this grocery store and apartment tower were now off because there is no financing now that the parking deal fell through, but the radio sometimes will mis report things. Still waiting for clarity on this

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The last the city reported the 12 million designated for this came from a failed convention center hotel plan. So the parking deal shouldn't have any affect on this project. The radio was probably making an educated guess based on outdated information.

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The project was put on hold when the parking lease was challenged, but money was found (like jmicha says) to move it forward prior to the court ruling for the lease to go ahead. Parking lease cancellation should not affect this project, but will affect others.

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We should protest Cranley. He's going to bring Cincinnati back to 2001

 

It would be nice if more people would have protested him by showing up on November 5th and voting for Qualls.

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http://www.citybeat.com/cincinnati/blog-5254-parking_plan_called_off.html

 

In that City Beat article it confirms that this project is still a go as TIF money was used not parking lease money. I would still like to hear an update on this project as it has been sometime since anything has been said as far as taking down the garage.

 

Anyone have an idea on a timeline?

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We should protest Cranley. He's going to bring Cincinnati back to 2001

 

It would be nice if more people would have protested him by showing up on November 5th and voting for Qualls.

 

This.

 

http://www.citybeat.com/cincinnati/blog-5254-parking_plan_called_off.html

 

In that City Beat article it confirms that this project is still a go as TIF money was used not parking lease money. I would still like to hear an update on this project as it has been sometime since anything has been said as far as taking down the garage.

 

So this major development, which at one point hinged on a parking plan that was hastily pushed through, no longer requires this project?

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There is one tenant who has a lease still in the building.  The hair salon.  Once the City finds them a new location and moves them there, they can begin planning for demo. 

 

Also, because of parking requirements with the Hyatt and Saks, the parking conversion for Tower Place Mall is supposed to happen first.  That is supposed to start construction before the end of the year.

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^ You're putting it past King Cranley to stop this? If he personally doesn't want it, it's gone.

 

Scary, but I agree. And since he hasn't commented on it publicly (to my knowledge), we have no idea of this project's fate either.  I'm sure he would claim to have better ways to spend city money than by subsidizing a new tower and a grocery store.

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