Cincinnati: CUF / Corryville: Development and News

[el double u]

Christy's is a very interesting building.  It's been closed since I turned 21 in December and haven't had a chance to enjoy the biergarten, but it's always looked like a pretty cool place to enjoy a drink.  Does anyone know if people still live above the bar/restaurant? And if Christy really does want to sell the lot, that probably doesn't bode well for saving the structure.

[neilworms]

Lendhardt's (which everyone insists on calling Christies even though its just the Bar.... I guess that said something about the state of the restaurant though).  Is actually located in an old Mansion that was built by Christian Moerlien by for one of his daughters I believe.  It's even located on Moerlien Street.  I think its eligible for historic status on that ground.

 

First it was McMillan Manor.

Then it was Sterling McMillan

Now it's "Campus Park"

http://www.campusparkcincy.com/

 

They have gutted the lobby and filled its windows with posters showing even douchier-looking happy students. 

 

Wow even the logo is Douchey.  Open up a sports bar next door, preferably with a bull in it.

[Jimmy_James]

Christy's is a very interesting building.  It's been closed since I turned 21 in December and haven't had a chance to enjoy the biergarten, but it's always looked like a pretty cool place to enjoy a drink.  Does anyone know if people still live above the bar/restaurant? And if Christy really does want to sell the lot, that probably doesn't bode well for saving the structure.

If you want to be depressed about what this city has already lost, check out this link:

 

http://www.bettshouse.org/lost/

 

Sadly, a lot of that was voluntarily demolition.

 

Lendhardt's (which everyone insists on calling Christies even though its just the Bar.... I guess that said something about the state of the restaurant though).  Is actually located in an old Mansion that was built by Christian Moerlien by for one of his daughters I believe.  It's even located on Moerlien Street.  I think its eligible for historic status on that ground.

Yeah, that naming was just bad.  They should have been just Lenhardt's or just Christy's.  It's confusing to have both.  I'm assuming they weren't completely separate enterprises, but I really don't know. 

 

As for the ties to Moerlein, my dream is that Greg Hardman buys the property and runs it under the Moerlein name.  Seems like it is different enough from the Lagerhouse to avoid cannibalizing its business, and would serve the college student market if nothing else.  Hardman seems like a guy with a soft spot for historic ties, so I don't think this is completely outside the realm of possibility.

[el double u]

The lack of quality bars in Clifton is unreal.  With the location of the building and all the activity around U Square, a bar serving local brews, like the Lager House, would do really well here.  U Square has Keystone Bar and Grill moving in, but the outdoor space at this building is very unique to Clifton.  And considering how packed Woody's is for happy hour, I think the neighborhood would support another drinking hole.  However, I think Lendhart's and Christy's would need to be cosmetically touched-up to be successful.

[willalbro]

The lack of quality bars in Clifton is unreal.

 

All we really have around here is Adriatico's for a selection of craft brews. Otherwise, it's slim pickings. Murphy's sucks for beer selection and rude, crappy owners and staff. Bearcat Cafe is ok, but not my cup of tea. Adriatico's is hardly a bar. I agree and do my outings downtown and OTR.

[natininja]

Who knows if Hardman is even aware of the situation. It would be pretty awesome if the old Moerleinhaus became a Lager House North with a more intimate atmosphere.

[ryanlammi]

I believe Greg is aware of the situation. I'm not sure about how involved he is. He is one of the principal members of the Brewery District, and I know that they are familiar with the proposal.

[natininja]

Okay, thanks. Well that is good to know. At least he is aware of the option to pursue such a project, then. Must have crossed his mind. Who knows if he is actually in a position to take something like that on, though. Only he knows.

[Yves Behar]

Fries is a pretty alright establishment.

[willalbro]

Just got confirmation that Christy's is still planning to reopen Friday, as stated above.

[willalbro]

Does anyone know how much the owners of Christy's are asking for the buildings?

[Jimmy_James]

Just got confirmation that Christy's is still planning to reopen Friday, as stated above.

 

Just the bar, or Lenhardt's as well?

[Jimmy_James]

Fries is a pretty alright establishment.

 

Yeah, I love Fries.  Arlin's as well.  But I think they're talking about bars on that side of Clifton, specifically.

[Jimmy_James]

Here's the finished Vine Street Flats. Better than the little hideous strip mall thing it replaced. The design actually has some potential, but then they went and ruined that potential with the weird little red wings, the use of brick where brick wasn't necessary, and all around lack of design finess

Read more: http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,26241.0.html#ixzz2KE0TXeAI

 

Yeah, those red strips just look terrible.  Otherwise it's okay, I guess.  Whenever I see a new building like this, I can't help but wonder how dated it is going to look in 20 years.

[Neville]

Yes... bars in CUF.

[willalbro]

Just got confirmation that Christy's is still planning to reopen Friday, as stated above.

 

Just the bar, or Lenhardt's as well?

 

AFAIK, Lenhardt's

[TheCOV]

Total fail.  I no longer care if a project brings street life or density or anything to these streets.  I'll take the empty buildings that we lost instead.  It's all just so damn ugly.  Seriously, this rubbish looks like 1960's era East European apartment blocks.  I don't think people realize how little historic stock is left, and the old school could have provided a foundation and point of reference for what remains.  As more of this CRAP gets built, it only makes these CRAPPY developers more brazen and willing to eliminate what's left of our collective history.

 

I am just so ashamed of our society that we build this junk.  I'm getting to the point that the announcement of a new project in certain hoods actually makes me scared of what junk will befall us, instead of being excited about the prospect of new development.

 

The city needs to make a stand.  IF YOU WANT TO DESTROY AN OLDER STRUCTURE, WHAT REPLACES IT MUST BE OF HIGHER QUALITY.

[CincyIntheKnow]

Thank this guy.

 

 

And what is the point of posting this profile?  Totally uncalled for.  Considering all the factors that go into the final execution of a built design, hardly worth villifying the designer (if it in fact was him).  Mods should remove this.

 

Am I happy with it?  No.  But everyone needs to remember, that if building these developments in a nicer manner was economically feasible or in high enough demand, someone would have stepped up to do it by now.  They aren't, so this is what we are stuck with.  You want better bad enough, either build up demand or step up and do it yourself. 

[neilworms]

FYI: Both Urbancincy and the mainstream media (WCPO) are reporting on this:

 

http://www.urbancincy.com/2013/02/proposed-210-unit-apartment-development-would-demolish-historic-christys-lenhardts/#comments

 

http://www.wcpo.com/dpp/money/business_news/proposed-student-housing-development-would-raise-lenhardts-building

[el double u]

FYI: Both Urbancincy and the mainstream media (WCPO) are reporting on this:

 

http://www.urbancincy.com/2013/02/proposed-210-unit-apartment-development-would-demolish-historic-christys-lenhardts/#comments

 

http://www.wcpo.com/dpp/money/business_news/proposed-student-housing-development-would-raise-lenhardts-building

 

I noticed that urbancincy is reporting that there will be 245 parking spaces and wcpo is reporting only 50.  Who's right?

[ryanlammi]

^ The packet they handed out said ~245 parking spaces. They continuously referred to that number as 250, so maybe WCPO misheard them.

[CincyGuy45202]

^??? There's nothing offensive about that post. It was a link to a public work related profile that lists him as the architect of the project. Someone asked "what firm did this" and by searching, the only thing that could be found was the architects public LinkedIn page that lists the project someone asked about. It's not like I posted his home phone number or said Burn him Alive! Public LinkedIn pages aren't some sacred personal thing.

 

Actually- I don't think the Schiel project is all that horrible. Some of the stuff on Euclid is pretty bad, but Schiel might be ok, and I have no complaints over Vine St Flats especially considering what it replaced

[JoeC23]

Total fail.  I no longer care if a project brings street life or density or anything to these streets.  I'll take the empty buildings that we lost instead.  It's all just so damn ugly.  Seriously, this rubbish looks like 1960's era East European apartment blocks.  I don't think people realize how little historic stock is left, and the old school could have provided a foundation and point of reference for what remains.  As more of this CRAP gets built, it only makes these CRAPPY developers more brazen and willing to eliminate what's left of our collective history.

 

I am just so ashamed of our society that we build this junk.  I'm getting to the point that the announcement of a new project in certain hoods actually makes me scared of what junk will befall us, instead of being excited about the prospect of new development.

 

The city needs to make a stand.  IF YOU WANT TO DESTROY AN OLDER STRUCTURE, WHAT REPLACES IT MUST BE OF HIGHER QUALITY.

 

Seriously? A lot of what you (and others here) are complaining about being demolished is of little architectural significance and would have been called 'junk' by your definitions when it was constructed. Yeah the Schiel School was designed by a prominent architect but what exactly was so great about it other than it was old and designed by a famous guy? It was functionally obsolete for its use and would have never been economically practical to convert to any other uses such as condos or apartments.

 

If it wasn't demolished it would have likely have sat empty just like all of Cincinnati's other vacant school buildings. 

 

[JoeC23]

I'd be fine if the building (s) that houses Clifton Natural Foods are demolished for this project since they don't seem to be anything special but hopefully the mansion built by Moerlein is able to be preserved. Obviously the developer would have to scale back their proposal to make this happen. 

[Guest jmecklenborg]

Actually that building is quite unusual for Cincinnati, I don't know of another in that style. 

 

Given all the crap that's been built in the past 10 years in this area, we have no reason to believe that this thing will look any better than McMillan Manor, U Square on the loop, Short Vine crap, etc.

[el double u]

Given all the crap that's been built in the past 10 years in this area, we have no reason to believe that this thing will look any better than McMillan Manor, U Square on the loop, Short Vine crap, etc.

 

But, given all the people/businesses all that crap has brought to CUF, we have reason to believe this project will probably happen with or without tearing down Lenhardt's.

[ryanlammi]

"If it wasn't demolished it would have likely have sat empty just like all of Cincinnati's other vacant school buildings."

 

Just like the former SCPA and Northside's Kirby Road School and Fairview German Language School and Walnut Hills' Schoolhouse Lofts. But you know... they're all vacant

[JoeC23]

The vast majority of the buildings abandoned by CPS either sit vacant or have been torn down. The buildings that you cite are a statistical anomaly and are greatly outnumbered by schools that have not been sucessfully redeveloped into apartments or any other use. SCPA has unique circumstances due to its location and size which make a redevlopment profitable.

[neilworms]

The vast majority of the buildings abandoned by CPS either sit vacant or have been torn down. The buildings that you cite are a statistical anomaly and are greatly outnumbered by schools that have not been sucessfully redeveloped into apartments or any other use. SCPA has unique circumstances due to its location and size which make a redevlopment profitable.

 

But isn't the schiel site also a potentially profitable site as its right next to a University with plenty of demand for high priced student housing?

 

On the flip side I heard there was tons of absestos which made redoing it not very feasible.  I would have liked to have seen the castle facade saved, but actually feel that the current building is a better use as its mixed use.  The design is better than most developments from what I've seen, but its still not quite as good as it could be.

[Guest jmecklenborg]

What people and businesses?  There were at least a dozen, if not two dozen businesses torn down for this development. 

 

Adding 2,000~ residents for 9 months out of the year does not significantly change the amount of commercial activity an area that already was seeing 30,000~ students and 10,000 staff visit daily. 

[wholtone]

I heard the developers said if Christy's stays then no deal. I wonder why they don't build it at the Stop-and-Go or Pomodori's instead? There isn't crap to look at at those corners.

[el double u]

What people and businesses?  There were at least a dozen, if not two dozen businesses torn down for this development. 

 

Adding 2,000~ residents for 9 months out of the year does not significantly change the amount of commercial activity an area that already was seeing 30,000~ students and 10,000 staff visit daily. 

 

People as in 65 West is 100% leased and USquare is over 50% leased 6 months before it opens.

 

Businesses as in UPA having one open space and USquare being something like 90% leased.

 

These apartments aren't like the dorms.  People don't pack up and leave for every long weekend or break.  I lived in 65 West this past summer and there were people everywhere.

 

I'm not sure that 10,000 staff ever visited daily, but UC's offices and the eventual hotel should bring plenty of people to the area as well as all of the residents living above.

[ryanlammi]

Christy's/Lenhardt's owner ready to sell

 

This deal is moving very fast...

[taestell]

I have always though the Clifton Natural Foods building was unique with its rounded corner.

 

Developers will always put forward the plan that maximizes their profit and minimizes their effort. If Lenhardt's and/or the Clifton Natural Foods building get designated as historic and can't be demolished, this developer (or another) will eventually come back and propose a smaller, L-shaped building that wraps around Clifton Natural Foods... or one where Stop & Go is located... or one where Pomodori's and their parking lot is located... etc. We're not losing anything by rejecting this mediocre proposal.

 

I wonder about the longer term impact on the area being demolished for just student housing. The U.S. had an unusually high birth rate from around 1988-1992, which explains why there are so many college-aged students right now and UC is at peak student population. The birth rate has been dropping since then (currently at its lowest-ever rate), meaning that overall student enrollment is likely to drop at colleges across the country. So unless UC is going to attract enough students away from competing schools to maintain an enrollment of 40,000, we probably won't even need this much student housing 10 years from now. And since incoming students will probably opt to live in these "nice" new complexes, all of these houses in Clifton Heights will either sit vacant or be rented to non-students.

[taestell]

>whatever it's called now

 

First it was McMillan Manor.

Then it was Sterling McMillan

Now it's "Campus Park"

http://www.campusparkcincy.com/

 

They have gutted the lobby and filled its windows with posters showing even douchier-looking happy students. 

 

Why do they keep changing the name? Has the management changed twice? Or are they just trying to outrun the negative word-of-mouth and Yelp reviews? I only heard negative reviews of the place from people I knew who lived there.

[willalbro]

And since incoming students will probably opt to live in these "nice" new complexes, all of these houses in Clifton Heights will either sit vacant or be rented to non-students.

 

And this is exactly what will likely happen. Even over the years, CUF has seen students shift to living closer to campus. Many landlords shifted to Section 8 in the past when this happened.

 

There are too many slum lords around here to compete with new apartments close to campus, where students are less likely to be robbed.

[el double u]

And since incoming students will probably opt to live in these "nice" new complexes, all of these houses in Clifton Heights will either sit vacant or be rented to non-students.

 

And this is exactly what will likely happen. Even over the years, CUF has seen students shift to living closer to campus. Many landlords shifted to Section 8 in the past when this happened.

 

There are too many slum lords around here to compete with new apartments close to campus, where students are less likely to be robbed.

 

I think there will always be a market for the rental houses in CUF simply because not all UC students can afford the $600+ per month to live in these new developments.  If students can't afford one of these new apartments there's really nowhere else for them to go except to the houses or possibly an older apartment building.

[willalbro]

I think there will always be a market for the rental houses in CUF simply because not all UC students can afford the $600+ per month to live in these new developments.  If students can't afford one of these new apartments there's really nowhere else for them to go except to the houses or possibly an older apartment building.

 

Oh, there certainly will always be a market for student housing, and the landlords who offer reasonably priced, newly upgraded housing will get the business. My point is there will be less students in the area as they add all this new housing closer to campus. Large developers are taking advantage of a lack of new housing in the area. I don't like the newer developments, because many of them are cheaply built and unsightly, but they correctly target the market.

 

As for price, I can tell you from being a home-owner in CUF, and knowing many of the landlords in CUF, that many of them have the attitude towards all the new developments in the area that "We let them determine what we can charge students for our buildings." So if the new apartments are priced at $600.00, then landlords in the area will price theirs at $575.00. (bogus prices used to illustrate a point)

 

Arrogant? Maybe. Short sighted? Perhaps. The way it is? Definitely.

 

I'm not talking every landlord. Just several of the major players I know. There will always be slum lords who rent party houses to students who do not want new apartments, with all their rules an such.

 

My 2 cents anyway.

[Guest jmecklenborg]

>with all their rules an such.

 

At OU they built one of those places and here is what happened:

[willalbro]

At OU they built one of those places and here is what happened:

 

ROFL! I would love to see that happen up on McMillan. They used to have Cinco De Stratford around here. That is until a riot broke out.

[el double u]

ROFL! I would love to see that happen up on McMillan. They used to have Cinco De Stratford around here. That is until a riot broke out.

 

March 9th, 2013 will be "Clifton Fest" on Stratford.  Check it out on facebook.

[willalbro]

ROFL! I would love to see that happen up on McMillan. They used to have Cinco De Stratford around here. That is until a riot broke out.

 

March 9th, 2013 will be "Clifton Fest" on Stratford.  Check it out on facebook.

 

Thanks for the link!

[GCrites]

[quote author=willalbro link=topic=28327.msg662734#msg662734

 

I'm not talking every landlord. Just several of the major players I know. There will always be slum lords who rent party houses to students who do not want new apartments, with all their rules an such.

 

 

When I first got out of high school I rented an apartment on my own in a complex full of full-blown adults and attended a branch campus. When it was time go away to school, there was no way in hell that I was going to deal with all those bullshit summer camp rules. Not from the university and especially not from the private sector. I'm no rebel or "loud at night" kinda guy, but so many of the rules revolved around petty little offenses that someone old enough to go to war shouldn't have to worry about. I selected Shawnee State because their housing arrangements treated people like adults. What kind of people are those super controlled environments good for? TV addicts? Gamers? I don't think they're good for anybody -- especially not these people you see who are like 29 and living in them. And they wonder why people have trouble joining the adult population.

[natininja]

They used to have Cinco De Stratford around here. That is until a riot broke out.

 

Oh man, the tear gas.... :D

[Guest jmecklenborg]

>And they wonder why people have trouble joining the adult population.

 

 

When I went to OU I lived at University Court Apartments, or something like that.  There was also a University Plaza Apartments, or something like that.  They looked pretty much alike but were a mile away from one another.  One morning I woke up in some random person's apartment in the opposite complex.  Also there was undeniable evidence that I took my pants off immediately upon entering this mystery aparment. 

[el double u]

>And they wonder why people have trouble joining the adult population.

 

 

When I went to OU I lived at University Court Apartments, or something like that.  There was also a University Plaza Apartments, or something like that.  They looked pretty much alike but were a mile away from one another.  One morning I woke up in some random person's apartment in the opposite complex.  Also there was undeniable evidence that I took my pants off immediately upon entering this mystery aparment.

 

LMAO

[GCrites]

>And they wonder why people have trouble joining the adult population.

 

 

When I went to OU I lived at University Court Apartments, or something like that.  There was also a University Plaza Apartments, or something like that.  They looked pretty much alike but were a mile away from one another.  One morning I woke up in some random person's apartment in the opposite complex.  Also there was undeniable evidence that I took my pants off immediately upon entering this mystery aparment. 

 

Ahh, that old did-I-get-laid-last-night? feeling.

[willalbro]

there was no way in hell that I was going to deal with all those bullsh!t summer camp rules. Not from the university and especially not from the private sector.

 

I wouldn't either. I like having my own house where I am free to do what the hell I want, even if it is hang around outside, barbecue and howl at the moon till the wee hours. Don't need a chaperone.

[Guest jmecklenborg]

>feeling.

 

No I didn't mean to insinuate that at all.  I got lost leaving a party, blacked out, and apparently walked around until I found an open door.  You can only get away with that kind of stuff in college towns, because everywhere else you're going to get shot.  Kind of like how you can only get away with climbing through people's windows at 4am to steal their beer and maybe a quart of milk in college towns. 

[el double u]

Kind of like how you can only get away with climbing through people's windows at 4am to steal their beer and maybe a quart of milk in college towns. 

 

What college did YOU go to lol