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Pete Witte interviewed Steve Leeper on the latest episode of his podcast Live from Table 1, and towards the end Leeper gets quite animated talking about the idea of selling the north building of the downtown library and using the proceeds to improve the south building and "activate" it at street level later in the evening and at night. He seemed frustrated that the deal probably won't happen due to political opposition. Overall, it's an interesting interview.

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^Great news on that, that was one of my big ones I really wanted!!!

 

Also, interested Jwulsin on that podcast you mentioned, that would be so good for downtown if we could do that.  In all seriousness, I think I personally know 3 people that got mugged next to the library. Not certain if that type of stuff has slowed down in the last 3 years or if it is still a problem area.  It kind of sounds to me like it still is. And to me, that's a big barrier to connected downtown better to OTR.

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^Great news on that, that was one of my big ones I really wanted!!!

 

Also, interested Jwulsin on that podcast you mentioned, that would be so good for downtown if we could do that.  In all seriousness, I think I personally know 3 people that got mugged next to the library. Not certain if that type of stuff has slowed down in the last 3 years or if it is still a problem area.  It kind of sounds to me like it still is. And to me, that's a big barrier to connected downtown better to OTR.

 

Yeah - I think Leeper agrees with you and feels the library is a key piece to activating Vine St from Fountain Square up to OTR. Personally, I feel it should be a higher priority to get the Terrace Plaza renovated, finish the Garfield Suites renovation (what happened to this job?), and fill in the large surface lots along Vine at 7th.

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^Yeah, I don't disagree with you necessarily.  I think probably what Leeper is thinking is more or less the 3CDC strategy in OTR originally and still now:

 

Get the problem areas fixed first, then let the free market help out a bit on the other ones.

 

 

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The stretch of Vine between 7th and 9th (and really all the way up to Court) is really dead. The library is mostly people just loitering and/or smoking weed, which is actually preferable to the Garfield Suites side of the street. The only real businesses are Jean Robert's and the Garfield Mini Mart, which are both in a terrible one story building and surrounded by an entire city block of surface parking. If 3CDC is going to start focusing more attention on Court street, the block of Vine between 7th and 8th should become much higher priority to better connect Court Street to Fountain Square.

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The stretch of Vine between 7th and 9th (and really all the way up to Court) is really dead. The library is mostly people just loitering and/or smoking weed, which is actually preferable to the Garfield Suites side of the street. The only real businesses are Jean Robert's and the Garfield Mini Mart, which are both in a terrible one story building and surrounded by an entire city block of surface parking. If 3CDC is going to start focusing more attention on Court street, the block of Vine between 7th and 8th should become much higher priority to better connect Court Street to Fountain Square.

 

I wish Jean Robert's would put a rooftop patio/bar on top. There's a car ramp on the Court St side of the building that makes me think they used to park cars on the roof.

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I wish Jean Robert's would put a rooftop patio/bar on top. There's a car ramp on the Court St side of the building that makes me think they used to park cars on the roof.

 

Yeah they were still parking cars up there in the 90s.  I walked up there and took photos once or twice. 

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Yeah it's weird, you think cars are heavy and they put all their weight on only a few inches of square feet per tire, but they really aren't as dense as restaurant equipment and people seated all over the room in furniture.

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Not sure if this deserves its own thread, but the building at 22-24 W Seventh St is going to be renovated into 14 apartments and 2 commercial spaces, after receiving tax credits in the latest round: https://www.wcpo.com/news/transportation-development/development/cincinnati-s-traction-building-hamilton-s-champion-paper-mill-win-big-in-historic-tax-credits

 

22-24 W. Seventh St., Cincinnati

Total Project Cost:  $1,790,000

Total Tax Credit:  $245,000

An eight-story building in downtown Cincinnati's Race Street Historic District, this building is an early example of the transition from smaller-scale commercial buildings to modern skyscrapers. After years of vacancy, the c. 1898 building will be rehabilitated into 14 two-bedroom apartments and two commercial spaces.

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A revival is underway on Fourth Street

 

frontpagegraphic*750xx2100-1181-0-160.jpg

 

A partner with Loring Group said the vision for this corner of downtown is to return it to its former glory at the end of 19th century.

 

More below:

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2018/06/21/a-revival-is-underway-on-fourth-street.html


"You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers

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Historic downtown building to become apartments, thanks in part to tax credits

 

The renovation of a historic downtown Cincinnati office building into apartments is moving forward after receiving state tax credits.

 

More below:

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2018/06/22/historic-downtown-building-to-become-apartments.html

 

22-24westseventh*750xx2400-3200-0-248.jpg


"You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers

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Movie theater will return to downtown Cincinnati

By Chris Wetterich  – Staff reporter and columnist, Cincinnati Business Courier

Jun 25, 2018, 12:41pm EDT

 

 

Downtown Cincinnati will soon have a movie theater once again, in the same spot where its last theater closed to make way for the Cincinnati Shakespeare Company.

 

Cincinnati World Cinema is expected to move into the theater slot at 719 Race St. in the Garfield Tower Apartments within the next 90 days.

 

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2018/06/25/movie-theater-will-return-to-downtown-cincinnati.html

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That's cool, I'm glad this group will be able to bring an old theater back to life.

 

This reminds me, though, I had been meaning to post this article in one of the Cincinnati threads:

 

Arena District Movie Theater Will be Converted to Office Use

 

Anyone holding out hope that a movie theater would re-open in the Arena District can officially consider those hopes dashed. Nationwide Insurance announced today plans to convert the 31,000 square feet of space into a new “Innovation Center,” relocating workers from its “Refinery 191” innovation space next door.

 

“The expansion of our innovation facilities reflects our commitment to developing new ways to help members protect what’s most important and plan for a secure future,” stated Terrance Williams, Nationwide’s chief marketing officer and president of emerging businesses. “By repurposing a space we already own, we will cost effectively meet our growing business needs. It’s a win-win for both Nationwide and the Arena District.”

 

^ The idea comes up from time to time that Downtown Cincinnati needs a multiplex cinema, and I think this goes to show that it's very hard for them to succeed in downtowns.

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Isn’t that theater super run down? Isn’t that why the Shakespear co left in the first place?

 

I know CMC Properties has been working on renovating it for awhile and now it looks like the new tenant will be putting an additional $30,000 to $50,000 into it as well.

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Isn’t that theater super run down? Isn’t that why the Shakespear co left in the first place?

The space was originally designed as a movie theater, so it was never an ideal home for the Shakespeare Company. If you go to the new Shakespeare Company theater, you'll see how it has no resemblance to a movie theater. 

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Public Radio proposal seems to have won the city lot next to city hall...apperantly the milhaus proposal would have been low quality material and the developer doesn’t want to combine the 2 proposals together because they don’t want to pay the extra costs to build the structure with steel instead of wood.

 

Also Cincy Public Radio stated they had no other site options in the cbd, and losing the site would risk them being able to stay downtown.

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I think City Council picked the "easy" option here in order to get CPR out of the current home as quickly as possible to allow the current studios and the Town Center garage to be redeveloped. It wouldn't been nicer to see something higher density go next to City Hall, but I'm not crying about a parking lot in the urban core being redeveloped.

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I wonder what kind of infrastructure costs are needed for the radio station that could prohibit them from using the library. I know nothing about this type of stuff, but I can imagine renovating a building for such a specific high-tech use could be difficult. But on its surface it seems like a good idea.

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I was walking north on Race toward 5th street to pick up dinner last night and I saw a woman and her daughter looking at the old blue skywalk monoliths. I said "that won't be much help, it's from the 90s". She was looking for shopping and thought maybe the Banks would be good. I directed her toward OTR for boutique shopping but she did not sound convinced. The city needs to get rid of these things and put in place a more up to date map (similar to the ones around OTR, but for the CBD, OTR, and the banks). With that she would have quickly seen that the only thing they can buy at the Banks is a Tervis cup.

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About the Public Radio building, a friend forwarded me a response they received that details their thought process of taking up the lot next to City Hall. I agree that having public radio there is much better than a parking lot, but it still seems a little disingenuous to hear their excuses about being part of a mixed-use development due to having "music, performance, public discussions and debates." There are tons of bars throughout the city that are directly above or adjacent to bars that play music until 2am. But seems like this is a done deal, and at least it seems they'll have a coffeeshop as part of the building...and yet another downtown plaza.

 

I appreciate your sharing your concerns and opinions with me regarding Cincinnati Public Radio’s interest in the property next to City Hall. However, I suspect at least a portion of your objections may hav etc do with a lack of information, which is our fault.

 

Let me attempt to elucidate.

 

For one thing, unlike an apartment building, CPR has very specific technical and location requirements. We can’t just be “plopped down” anywhere. Among other things, direct, line-of-sight access to our NPR satellite and transmitting tower is critical. Unfortunately, there are not many locations in the Central Business District that offer this. We know. We’ve been looking for almost eight months now. Being immediately adjacent to City Hall also provides the City with convenient access to CPR’s facilities, and since we’re a critical player in the nationwide Emergency Alert System, City government can easily use our resources to provide crucial, immediate information in the case of natural or manmade disaster. Further, we require adequate, immediate access to parking — parking not just for our own staff, who come and go at all hours of the day and night, but for hundreds of guests who come into our facility each month. Security, day and night, is paramount. Not many places in the CBD offer that.

 

In addition, while some have proposed that we could possibly be included in a “mixed use” facility, practical considerations make that option unrealistic. We are a 24/7 operation. We sponsor — and in a new facility designed for our purposes, will sponsor even more — evening and weekend events: music, performance, public discussions and debates. That makes us a less than ideal close neighbor for a residential enterprise.

 

There are other apartment buildings in the Over-the-Rhine and West End. Some of them are quite new. Many, such as the newly renovated building on the corner of 12th and Central Parkway, have substantial vacancy numbers. In addition, there are a number of vacant lots and buildings that had once been or could easily be converted into residential use in our immediate vicinity. While these do not meet the aforementioned technical specifications we require, they could easily satisfy development as below market to market rate housing.

 

As I mentioned earlier, we’ve been searching for a while. The need to relocate was not our choice, but where we will end up is — at least to a significant degree. We desire to remain in the City, but with the exception of the property at 9th and Plum, we have uncovered no other viable alternative. If this opportunity is lost, we may have no viable option but to begin seeking options outside of the City of Cincinnati.

 

That would be a considerable loss not only to this organization, but for City residents as well.

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About the Public Radio building, a friend forwarded me a response they received that details their thought process of taking up the lot next to City Hall. I agree that having public radio there is much better than a parking lot, but it still seems a little disingenuous to hear their excuses about being part of a mixed-use development due to having "music, performance, public discussions and debates." There are tons of bars throughout the city that are directly above or adjacent to bars that play music until 2am. But seems like this is a done deal, and at least it seems they'll have a coffeeshop as part of the building...and yet another downtown plaza.

 

I appreciate your sharing your concerns and opinions with me regarding Cincinnati Public Radio’s interest in the property next to City Hall. However, I suspect at least a portion of your objections may hav etc do with a lack of information, which is our fault.

 

Let me attempt to elucidate.

 

For one thing, unlike an apartment building, CPR has very specific technical and location requirements. We can’t just be “plopped down” anywhere. Among other things, direct, line-of-sight access to our NPR satellite and transmitting tower is critical. Unfortunately, there are not many locations in the Central Business District that offer this. We know. We’ve been looking for almost eight months now. Being immediately adjacent to City Hall also provides the City with convenient access to CPR’s facilities, and since we’re a critical player in the nationwide Emergency Alert System, City government can easily use our resources to provide crucial, immediate information in the case of natural or manmade disaster. Further, we require adequate, immediate access to parking — parking not just for our own staff, who come and go at all hours of the day and night, but for hundreds of guests who come into our facility each month. Security, day and night, is paramount. Not many places in the CBD offer that.

 

In addition, while some have proposed that we could possibly be included in a “mixed use” facility, practical considerations make that option unrealistic. We are a 24/7 operation. We sponsor — and in a new facility designed for our purposes, will sponsor even more — evening and weekend events: music, performance, public discussions and debates. That makes us a less than ideal close neighbor for a residential enterprise.

 

There are other apartment buildings in the Over-the-Rhine and West End. Some of them are quite new. Many, such as the newly renovated building on the corner of 12th and Central Parkway, have substantial vacancy numbers. In addition, there are a number of vacant lots and buildings that had once been or could easily be converted into residential use in our immediate vicinity. While these do not meet the aforementioned technical specifications we require, they could easily satisfy development as below market to market rate housing.

 

As I mentioned earlier, we’ve been searching for a while. The need to relocate was not our choice, but where we will end up is — at least to a significant degree. We desire to remain in the City, but with the exception of the property at 9th and Plum, we have uncovered no other viable alternative. If this opportunity is lost, we may have no viable option but to begin seeking options outside of the City of Cincinnati.

 

That would be a considerable loss not only to this organization, but for City residents as well.

 

It's mind-blowing, then, that other cities are able to house their public radio stations in mixed-use buildings.

 

Also, what apartment building at 12th and Central Parkway? I'm pretty sure the building they are referring to was renovated for office use. And what does it's vacancy rate have to do with anything? It was, by their own account, just finished. Of course it hasn't been filled yet. I love NPR and I'm a huge supporter, but this is really disingenuous, crappy response.

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^^the thing is thats not a secure location around City Hall at night because there is so little activity. Any plaza they put there is going to draw drug activity and be a burden to program and activate. It’s completely desolate over there.


www.cincinnatiideas.com

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I hate to say this but Otto Budig sits on the board of CPR. What Otto Budig says most likely happens. Its very rare any local politician go against his plan or wishes. I have seen this numerous times now. Notice how Cranley has gone quiet on the issue. I am sure Otto called his office and he backed down.

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^^the thing is thats not a secure location around City Hall at night because there is so little activity. Any plaza they put there is going to draw drug activity and be a burden to program and activate. It’s completely desolate over there.

 

It's lazily designed. Looks like they ripped off the one in front of the Public Library. We all know how great that one is...

 

20180419cpr-9th-plum-rendering.jpg

Library_Streetview.thumb.jpg.510f881d6a0996b577f59e168523cead.jpg


“All truly great thoughts are conceived while walking.”
-Friedrich Nietzsche

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So they’re pointing to a newly renovated office building in an attempt to show that the downtown residential market is weak? Don’t they think the developer of the apartments would know a little more about the market than freakin’ NPR?!? How are they not repeating the same mistakes of their current location in the West End with that empty amphitheater they have over there with this project?


www.cincinnatiideas.com

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Yeah, it's a major faux pas for him to claim The Strietmann is an apartment building and point to its vacancy as proof that we don't need more apartments downtown ... when that building is actually office space. D'oh! That makes it pretty clear he isn't really aware of the major changes taking place in our city—even just the blocks around their current studio—which is really unfortunate for our city's last remaining public radio organization.

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It’s pretty disappointing that the city is going with the public radio option for this site instead of housing. The response from CPR is a load of BS, too. The most obvious question I have about their response is why the hell do they need to be downtown? They claim their locations are limited by needing a direct line or whatever to their satellite, so does this mean development around this site will need to be limited to not interfere with their signal?

 

Citing the occupancy of a just-opened office building serves what purpose? To 'prove' that residential in the core is overbuilt? How inappropriate for CPR to even comment on that, much less comment in such a wildly incorrect way? And stating that they would be a bad partner in a mixed use development is laughable, again given how many residential units sit above loud or 24 hour users. I think the donors to CPR need to start asking why their donations are being used to pay high land costs in the CBD. Is that the best use of their precious few dollars? And the last little bit about really wanting to stay in the city, but if they don't get their way here, they'll pack up and move to the suburbs is a move right out of the Mike Brown playbook. Oh no, the local public radio station may relocate outside of the city, taking their handful of employees and minimal programming with them! Lol, what a joke.

 

This whole situation reeks of corruption and Cincy’s provincialism. Both this and the concert venue at the Banks have demonstrated that the old Cincinnati mentality is still in full effect. Both times Columbus developers have been gamed by local croneyism. Pathetic. No one should be surprised when out of town developers choose to avoid even trying to work in Cincinnati given how common these little stunts are.

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Stretimann also has very rental high rates, like class-A level, so it's no surprise they're struggling to find tenants. 

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^^the thing is thats not a secure location around City Hall at night because there is so little activity. Any plaza they put there is going to draw drug activity and be a burden to program and activate. It’s completely desolate over there.

 

It's lazily designed. Looks like they ripped off the one in front of the Public Library. We all know how great that one is...

 

 

 

WOW, that is REALLY similar! Maybe a bit of the new Otto M Budig theatre mixed in as well with the 'lonely people in the corner window gazing at the street below' aesthetic.

promoted-media_565a5dd0203c3.jpg.5c1e30a9ce6f83d115dcc569600d154d.jpg

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It’s pretty disappointing that the city is going with the public radio option for this site instead of housing. The response from CPR is a load of BS, too. The most obvious question I have about their response is why the hell do they need to be downtown? They claim their locations are limited by needing a direct line or whatever to their satellite, so does this mean development around this site will need to be limited to not interfere with their signal?

 

Citing the occupancy of a just-opened office building serves what purpose? To 'prove' that residential in the core is overbuilt? How inappropriate for CPR to even comment on that, much less comment in such a wildly incorrect way? And stating that they would be a bad partner in a mixed use development is laughable, again given how many residential units sit above loud or 24 hour users. I think the donors to CPR need to start asking why their donations are being used to pay high land costs in the CBD. Is that the best use of their precious few dollars? And the last little bit about really wanting to stay in the city, but if they don't get their way here, they'll pack up and move to the suburbs is a move right out of the Mike Brown playbook. Oh no, the local public radio station may relocate outside of the city, taking their handful of employees and minimal programming with them! Lol, what a joke.

 

This whole situation reeks of corruption and Cincy’s provincialism. Both this and the concert venue at the Banks have demonstrated that the old Cincinnati mentality is still in full effect. Both times Columbus developers have been gamed by local croneyism. Pathetic. No one should be surprised when out of town developers choose to avoid even trying to work in Cincinnati given how common these little stunts are.

 

In a smart city, the public radio station might choose to anchor an up-and-coming neighborhood like Walnut Hills or Evanston. Surely those communities would benefit from their presence more than downtown, and they'd be closer to I-71 and have the ample parking they seem to be so concerned with.

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^ Exactly. I said the same thing in a post right after the city announced that they selected the housing developer for the lot and CPR began whining. The city could sell CPR the land for $1 in a more up and coming neighborhood, which would save CPR the $1-2 million (can't remember exactly how much they are planning to spend) on land costs. The last article I read about this said that CPR had enough money to buy the land at this time, but would still need to raise the funds for the actual building. So the render they are floating around is purely fantasy...no design work has gone into this, and they don't even know what their budget for construction will be. And to make matters worse, their fantasy rendering is crap, too! Doesn't it seem odd that CPR would spend so much just on land? Again, why do they need to be downtown?

 

Outside of PBS, which shares space with CPR currently, none of the local media stations are located downtown. In fact, it seems like a poor place to locate such a facility. If you are a public entity that relies on fundraising for the majority of your budget, why the hell would you not locate in a place where costs could be kept as low as possible, at least the up-front development costs? They could have a much bigger impact in Westwood or Walnut Hills or any number of neighborhoods, and their costs would be much lower. Hell, there is plenty of developable land around Xavier; given the roots of WVXU, why not try to locate there? I just don't understand this at all. I also don't understand the point of selecting a winner for an RFP, only to reverse the decision a week or so later. Who does business like that?

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Every development issue in the Cranley era has been ultra-shady. 

 

No telling what is going to take the place of the CET studios...no doubt a Cranley donor will be the central figure in whatever it is .

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^^the thing is thats not a secure location around City Hall at night because there is so little activity. Any plaza they put there is going to draw drug activity and be a burden to program and activate. It’s completely desolate over there.

 

It's lazily designed. Looks like they ripped off the one in front of the Public Library. We all know how great that one is...

 

20180419cpr-9th-plum-rendering.jpg

 

It appears from the rendering the historic grey 1 story building will be preserved..which I guess is nice? The milhaus proposal was going to demolish that structure.

 

Also, Cincy Public Radio said this design was subject to redesign, doesn't seem like it would be final. 

 

Last point, if we are concerned about adding density, there is a nearby lot right next to city on 274 W 9th St. It's a really sizeable lot, and right adjacent to city hall. Why doesn't 3cdc purcahse that parking lot, and build a 12 story residential tower with ground floor retail? I mean, a quick glance on google maps shows that there are plenty of opportunities everywhere in the cbd to add density. Not sure why this project is a do or die for that.

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I think your expectations are a little high when it comes to how many projects 3CDC can do simultaneously. Considering that, according to rumors going around right now, the 4th & Race project had died (again). They are going to have their hands full with Court & Walnut, other Court Street projects, Meiners Flats/Wielert's/OTR Kroger redevelopment, Elm Industries, and the OTR KFC site. There's no way they have the capacity to take on another 12 story tower in the CBD.

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4th and race is still on 3cdc page? Wonder what happened.

 

I mean I could see 3cdc having there hands full. Is it that hard to get outside investors and developers to build in the urban core.

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4th and race is still on 3cdc page? Wonder what happened.

 

I mean I could see 3cdc having there hands full. Is it that hard to get outside investors and developers to build in the urban core.

 

They're going to redevelop Fountain Place first while waiting for Sak's to close so they can redevelop 3/4 of the block at once. 

 

 

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Saks decided not to move to Kenwood several years ago, but now that the downtown Macy's has closed and Tiffany's will soon be leaving, I expect that Saks will shut down when their lease is up and exit the Cincinnati market altogether. At that point, 3CDC (or some other developer?) would be able to redevelop 3/4 of that block as jmecklenborg[/member] suggested. However, it'll be a little more complicated than that, because the Hyatt has conference rooms above Saks, so they would need to agree to lose their conference rooms (at least temporarily, as they could be incorporated into the new building).

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Louis Vuitton is leaving Saks and moving next to Tiffany's in Kenwood.

 

My guess is Saks just exits the Cincinnati market when they eventually close the downtown location.  I doubt the city will give them any more subsidies. 

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Silverton sues Cincinnati Public Schools over big development site

 

silvertonmixeduserender*750xx2800-1579-0-9.jpg

 

The village of Silverton is suing Cincinnati Public Schools for at least $1.5 million because the district did not properly clean up the site of a former school that is set to become a major, mixed-use development, the lawsuit alleges.

 

More below:

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2018/06/29/silverton-sues-cincinnati-public-schools-over-big.html


"You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers

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Kroger is rebranding itself into a "tech" company.  Kroger 2.0. 

 

Then they can rename the area around their HQ, KroBro.


“All truly great thoughts are conceived while walking.”
-Friedrich Nietzsche

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