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2012 Presidential Election Discussion

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Ryan "on the issues" from what I have gathered (other than fiscal issues in which we already know where he stands.....

 

-100% anti-abortion.  Life begins at conception.  This applies as well in cases of rape and incest

 

-"A" rating from the NRA.  Against increased background checks and tighter restrictions

 

-Absolutely opposed to both gay marriage and gay adoption...... BUT is in favor of laws that would preclude employment discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation.  On these three gay rights issues, he holds the opposite position of Romney on all three

 

-

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On these three gay rights issues, he holds the opposite position of Romney on all three.

 

 

A great tactic, and suited for our idiocracy...favor and oppose everything!

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^Well.... at least he was at one point.  But I suppose this is one of those etch-n-sketch moments....

 

MittPride.jpg

 

 

Ryan is farther to the rigth on social issues, particularly gay rights, than I initially thought.  He has twice voted for a FEDERAL constitutional amendment which would have limited marriage to being between a man and a woman.  Freedom loving people should always encourage the inclusion of negative rights in our constitution, no?  (What about the 10th amendment?...... haven't I always said how the people beat their "states' rights" drum like a dirty little whore?)  He did not support the repeal of DADT.  As noted above, he has voted against gay adoption in DC.  He also voted against the domestic partner registry in DC.  All very disappointing.

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The last time Jon Stewart had a "funny" anything was in Half Baked.

 

You say that everytime someone posts a clip from the Daily Show.  Although I know it must hurt to hear Stewart cleverly point out what you would rather ignore, it doesn't mean it is not objectively funny.  In fact, this Romney-Ryan ticket, the platform for which is nearly completely premised on trickle-down fairy dust from the 1980s, is bringing back memories of one of Stewart's best clips.....

 

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/thu-september-23-2010/postcards-from-the-pledge

 

 

 

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In other non-news comedian commentary, I found this pretty entertaining: Guessbidensnextgaffe

 

With such famous one-liners as "this is a big F*@#'n deal!" to his blowing the lid off Obama's stance on gay marriage to his latest comment about "puttin y'all back in chains!"

 

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0812/79740.html?hp=l13

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^Well.... at least he was at one point.  But I suppose this is one of those etch-n-sketch moments....

 

MittPride.jpg

 

 

Ryan is farther to the rigth on social issues, particularly gay rights, than I initially thought.  He has twice voted for a FEDERAL constitutional amendment which would have limited marriage to being between a man and a woman.  Freedom loving people should always encourage the inclusion of negative rights in our constitution, no?  (What about the 10th amendment?...... haven't I always said how the people beat their "states' rights" drum like a dirty little whore?)  He did not support the repeal of DADT.  As noted above, he has voted against gay adoption in DC.  He also voted against the domestic partner registry in DC.  All very disappointing.

 

Freedom loving people dont love Paul Ryan, Mitt Romney, or Barack Obama. All of them are terrible in my opinion.

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If you stand against Gary Johnson, you stand against freedom!

 

No but people who believe in marriage equality, and are against the Patriot Act, NDAA, domestic drones, etc, most likely dont support Mitt Romney, Barack Obama, or Paul Ryan. Those men all are either against gay marriage, or actionless in doing anything meaningful to end the ridiculous ban/control of peoples lives. They either signed or voted for the NDAA, Drones, Patriot Act, etc.

 

And all three believe in continuing the Wars. The war in afghanistan, and possibly entering into new wars. Its not a fight for freedom, its a fight for power in the region, oil, and to benefit their friends. And at the expense of human life.

 

All three men will continue the expensive, ridiculous war on drugs. Crowding our prisons with non-violent "criminals" while citizens with DUI's continue to drive our streets. How is marijuana any worse than alcohol or cigaretts? Its not, and if anything, its better! Also this is coming from someone who doesn't smoke, drink or do drugs. BTW, I think legalizing marijuana will create major deductions in crime in our cities, which is something I think all of us would like.

 

And we all know spending and debt will increase with all of these guys.

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Yes.... campaignng on lofty, pie-in-the-sky platitudes is easy when you are not *really* running for President.  When you don't have to recognize the necessary evils of actually governing, then your vision of a utopian society is easily painted.  I understand that Gary Johnson supports gay rights, but what exactly will (or, more importantly, can) he DO if elected which Obama has not already done?  Will he issue an Executive Order declaring gay marriage legal, overriding DOMA, the individual state laws, and judicial decisions on the subject?  Will he unilaterally repeal the Patriot Act (especially after he is privvy to the confidential information only the POTUS is given)?  If he were to veto an extension of the same, would he simply ignore the mandates when Congress overrides that veto?  Will he singlehandily re-write the laws on drugs and issue a presidential pardon for each state conviction?  How does a President go about legalizing marijuana?  How will he dictate how Congress exercises its "powers of the purse"?

 

Don't get me wrong.  I like Johnson and agree with him on many of his ideas.  But that doesn't mean I think he would make an effective President.  His supporters seem to have a fundamental misunderstanding as to the scope and reach of Presidential powers.  Even if his policies were plausible for implementation upon election (which they are not), a shock would be sent through the system which would have uncertain, and possibly detrimental (especially his fiscal policies), effects which could spiral us into a tailspin to which society would have trouble adapting.

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Yes.... campaignng on lofty, pie-in-the-sky platitudes is easy when you are not *really* running for President. 

 

Worked for Obama ;)

 

And besides Gary Johnson has governing experience, something Obama completely lacked.

 

Gary Johnson as governor balanced New Mexico's budget(one of only 4 states), left with a budget surplus, and cut taxes 14 times.

 

Before being governor he started a construction company which grew to over 1,000, being one of the largest construction companies in the state.

 

He has more experience, and is more qualified for the job than both Obama and Romney.

 

And I understand he doesn't necessarily have the power to do certain things on his own, but he would be an active voice pushing for certain things. And I rather have someone as president who believes in that, than someone who doesn't.

 

With your logic we might as well elect a gay hating, racist president because he doesn't really have the power to act on it.

 

 

And yeah, someone who strongly believes in gay marriage, ending the wars, legalizing marijuana, balancing the budget, reducing debt, and was a successful governor and a successful businessman would be terrible to have as president :wtf:

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I think that Johnson would be able to govern just fine.  He clearly has had to make compromises in the past and would be able to do so as President.  Unfortunately I think that doing so would anger most of his base, many of whom (and I agree with Hts121 here) support him precisely because he's so extreme in the ideal, utopian version of reality that he pushes.  I think that as a third party candidate, sacrifices in reality have to be made to draw in as much support as possible from those disillusioned with the two main parties.  That may be why Johnson seems to be keying on the issues that neither candidate wants to touch.

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But are his views really that extreme?

 

Umm, on a few of the issues I'd say he is, especially in regards to what the general public is used to.  His hands off policy on almost all issues is either unproven and/or not what the public is interesting in trying, which I think is problematic for him in connecting with mainstream voters. 

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"In the battle of vice presidents, Ryan wins by a knockout"

 

It was almost funny to hear some Democrats try to portray Ryan as a “dangerous,” too “bold” choice for Romney, exactly at the same time Biden was out on the campaign trail playing to the script of some movie only he could see. In less than two days he gave the world to understand he thinks it is still the 20th century, misnamed the state he was speaking in and most viciously, gave one of the crudest, most demeaning racist shoutouts ever.

 

http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2012/08/18/rex-murphy-in-the-battle-of-the-vice-presidents-ryan-wins-by-a-knockout/

 

 

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Both of them violate the cardinal rule for VP picks of 'do no harm.'  I'm not sure that either give a consensus bump up for the candidates.... although Ryan is perhaps more likely to generate some enthusiam within the both bases, which I don't think will necessarily matter because they were already about as fired up as they are gonna get.  I still endorse the Ryan pick just from an outside the bubble perspective.  But I'm having a hard time envisioning the voter who will jump (either way) camps because of him or Biden.  It could've been a lot worse I suppose...

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It seems as if the tide may be turning against Obama as the campaign heads toward the conventions.  From Romney winning the fundraising battle, to the latest Newsweek article by Niall Ferguson "Hit the Road, Barack - We Need a New President"  http://magazine-directory.com/Newsweek.htm.

 

And the latest ebook on Politico, outlining the internal battles and conflicts of the Obama campaign http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0812/79867.html?hp=r20    This election is nothing like 2008.  Romney isn't a very popular candidate even among his own party, but the longer he hangs in keeping the polls close, it puts more heat on Obama.  At this point, it seems like hardly anyone is excited about voting FOR Romney, but much more excited about voting against Obama.

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Gotta,

 

I don't think anyone has argued that Romney doesn't have a chance.  This is going to be a very very close race.  Florida will be the most crucial.  If the polls hold up as they are right now, Obama could win just Florida & New Hampshire with Romney sweeping every other state and still win the presidency 270-266.  However, if Romney wins Florida, game on.  That's why its interesting to see how Florida senior citizens will react to Ryan's Medicare voucher plan Romney supports(or did. Its tough to keep up with his positions).

 

I haven't read the newsweek article yet but thanks for the links

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I think Obama can lose Florida without endangering the electoral lead he's got. The popular vote is a lot closer than the electoral vote; without taking Florida AND either Ohio, Virginia or Colorado I can't see Romney pulling this off. We should see some bumps in the polls over the next few weeks with the conventions, but unless Romney can really redefine himself to voters at the convention and/or Obama really screws something up, Romney's going to have a tough fall.

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I think Obama is the one who's going to have a tough fall season...  don't forget, he still has to sign off on the White House's plans for detailing the cuts in sequester.  Talk about political suicide.

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I think Obama is the one who's going to have a tough fall season...  don't forget, he still has to sign off on the White House's plans for detailing the cuts in sequester.  Talk about political suicide.

We'll see. It's going to be close, but it looks like a pretty big chunk of the electorate has already made up their minds. Now it's all about who can fire up their people and get them to the polls.

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I think Obama can lose Florida without endangering the electoral lead he's got. The popular vote is a lot closer than the electoral vote; without taking Florida AND either Ohio, Virginia or Colorado I can't see Romney pulling this off. We should see some bumps in the polls over the next few weeks with the conventions, but unless Romney can really redefine himself to voters at the convention and/or Obama really screws something up, Romney's going to have a tough fall.

 

I tend to agree Obama is in the driver's seat but you never know.  The GOP base is fired up (as usual) and the dems have to match that enthusiasm.  They have to get voters registered and voting...Which may be tough in some of  these swing states where the GOP is trying to suppress the vote

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You "gotta" love the bravado about the Romney campaign!  Especially after the Monday they just endured where Romney needed to proclaim his disagreement with fellow Republican Rep. Akin's statement on 'legitimate rape'.  Ryan needed to do the same while also explaining why he co-sponsored a 2011 "Federal Personhood" bill in the House with Rep. Akin.  And then add on the further embarrassing news that more than 20 GOP freshmen lawmakers and top leadership staff took a late-night swim in the Sea of Galilee that involved drinking and had one Republican Representative from Kansas admitting that he "took off his clothes and jumped into the sea".

 

But all that embarrassing GOP news did have one silver lining.  At least Romney wouldn't have to talk about why he won't release more than one year of his federal taxes (going against the custom for presidential candidates beginning with his father George Romney).  But then Mitt Romney felt the need to joke at his New Hampshire rally, "Gosh, I feel like I'm almost a New Hampshire resident.  I come here…It would save me some tax dollars I think."

 

Oy!  Professional Republican campaigners must be buying their Maalox by the case!

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^The incidents with Akin's comments & the GOP skinny dip are defintely bad PR, but really unrelated to Romney, and merely blips in the news cycle.  The media is grasping to try and link him to either situation.  Not like either one is going to shape anyone's vote anyhow.

 

The unemployment rate, stuttering economy, foreign affairs & national security, federal debt, entitlement reform and healthcare are all real issues though....  but like most Obama fans, you'd rather talk about something else I guess

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The unemployment rate, stuttering economy, foreign affairs & national security, federal debt, entitlement reform and healthcare are all real issues though....  but like most Obama fans, you'd rather talk about something else I guess

Which party just made news today by deciding to put a constitutional amendment about abortion on its platform?

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The reason Romney won't release his tax return has nothing to do with the tax rate he paid.  I highly doubt his deductions were not legitimate (even if they would perhaps make the average American cringe).  I firmly believe the reason he won't release the returns is not that he didn't pay his dues to Uncle Sam...... it is that he didn't pay his dues to the Mormon Church..... which requires a 10% cut, because just like in other religioins, God is all good, all knowing, and all powerful but needs a very sizeable chunk of money from you.  I just can't imagine that Romney has paid the required 10%, which doesn't allow him to write-off horse dressage gear and yacht engines.

 

In other news, one of the GOP's many "spokesmen" is at it again

 

At the Iowa State Fair, Williams bashed Obama to a crowd saying, "We've got a Muslim president who hates farming, hates the military, hates the U.S. and we hate him!"

 

http://news.yahoo.com/hank-williams-jr-tells-crowd-obama-muslim-hates-160236032.html

 

Without Palin in the race this time, it is good that Hank Jr., The Donald, Nugent, and the like continue to remind America just how ignorant on the subject most of the President's fiercest critics are

 

It seems as if the tide may be turning against Obama as the campaign heads toward the conventions

 

It seems that is your standard lead-in...... yet these turning tides never quite seem to materialize.

 

 

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The unemployment rate, stuttering economy, foreign affairs & national security, federal debt, entitlement reform and healthcare are all real issues though....  but like most Obama fans, you'd rather talk about something else I guess

Signs that the U.S. labor market is performing better than previously thought have also helped stocks.

http://marketday.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/08/21/13394058-stocks-hit-a-new-four-year-high

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Here's a bit more polling info from the website

http://www.gallup.com/poll/156194/Democratic-Voting-Enthusiasm-Down-Sharply-2004-2008.aspx

 

Republicans' greater enthusiasm about voting is a troubling sign for the Obama campaign, especially given the fact that registered voters are essentially tied in their presidential voting preferences and that Republicans historically vote at higher rates than Democrats do.

 

But if Democrats do not close the enthusiasm gap between now and Election Day, it would put Obama's re-election chances in serious jeopardy.

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Well, they certainly have more enthusiasm for restricting women's reproductive rights and giving more tax breaks to the rich, I'll give you that.

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The unemployment rate, stuttering economy, foreign affairs & national security, federal debt, entitlement reform and healthcare are all real issues though....  but like most Obama fans, you'd rather talk about something else I guess

Which party just made news today by deciding to put a constitutional amendment about abortion on its platform?

 

When you said "news", I checked Politico, The Hill & CNN, but couldn't find any coverage.  Then I realized you probably meant Huffpo, and there it was in there GIANT headlines...  and in typical HUFFPO fashion, the headline does not truly indicate the article content.  The author is trying to tie Akin's ridiculous comments to the GOP platform and refers to a "draft" of a platform.  Nice try.

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Cincinnati Native Endorsed For President - Cincinnati Enquirer

 

Everything I have read makes the Modern Whig Party sound very straightforward and responsible. They seem to take common-sense approaches to their decisions and don't have extreme social views. I agree with majority of what they stand for after a brief overview (which is more than I can say about most other political parties/candidates).

 

Anyone have more information about the Modern Whig Party or the candidate they chose, T.J. O'Hara?

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The unemployment rate, stuttering economy, foreign affairs & national security, federal debt, entitlement reform and healthcare are all real issues though....  but like most Obama fans, you'd rather talk about something else I guess

Which party just made news today by deciding to put a constitutional amendment about abortion on its platform?

 

When you said "news", I checked Politico, The Hill & CNN, but couldn't find any coverage.  Then I realized you probably meant Huffpo, and there it was in there GIANT headlines...  and in typical HUFFPO fashion, the headline does not truly indicate the article content.  The author is trying to tie Akin's ridiculous comments to the GOP platform and refers to a "draft" of a platform.  Nice try.

 

Is this what you were looking for?

 

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2012/08/21/gop-platform-committee-approves-tough-anti-abortion-stance/

 

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/onpolitics/post/2012/08/abortion-republican-platform-todd-akin-mitt-romney/1

 

http://thehill.com/blogs/healthwatch/abortion/244479-report-gop-abortion-platform-doesnt-include-rape-exception

 

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0812/79945.html

 

http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-pn-no-exceptions-for-rape-in-gops-antiabortion-platform-20120821,0,2726542.story

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/election-2012/wp/2012/08/21/strict-anti-abortion-language-in-gop-platform/

 

 

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I'd actually prefer that the Obama supporters stay away from the Hank, Jr., Ted Nugent, LET 'EM DIE!, keep your dirty government hands off my medicare!, etc. 'enthusiasm'...... and, let's face it, that is the form GOP 'enthusiasm' usually comes in these days. 

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