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Cleveland: Streetscape and Atmosphere Improvements

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I always wished there would be some ground floor retail in the Landmark Towers.  I think there used to be a bank in part of the ground floor??  Something in there would give a bit more life to the area.  It's definitely in need of something!!!

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I used to bank at that Firstmerit Branch for years.  It was a very grand space to make my little deposits, for sure!

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On 11/18/2018 at 6:23 PM, CleveFan said:

Agree with MrClifton - the Ohio Bell building doesn’t get the love it deserves.  A good scrubbing and some creative lighting is definitely in order to highlight the building’s classic Art Deco look. And how cool would an apartment be where you could watch the Tribe win a World Series, in person, without buying a ticket! 

 

I've always thought it was odd that the Ohio Bell building doesn't have a lit crown at night considering how integral illumination was for the Art Deco style. Could you imagine the dramatic difference of our skyline at night with an illuminated Ohio Bell building, preferably without the giant AT&T logo 😍

 

Wow! I thought that video looked great. What are the odds of a park actually happening there? Probably not great but it seems to dramatically improve the area at a negligible cost.

 

Wow that video's awesome, great vision overall.

 

Isn't the Cleveland Thermal Plant out of commission ever since they upgraded the Lakeside plant? I see a lot of potential to make a connection between Gateway and the flats (especially with all the speculation going on down there- Thunderbird, Great Lakes, (?)Football Stadium, etc.). Right now it's like they gave up on pedestrians past the old viaduct/crosswalk.

 

Additionally, and it isn't building and projects speculation, more of an observation, but overall Gateway is pretty well incorporated with the area, and with NuCLEus, it'll be moreso. I think about other cities (Buffalo in particular), how the arena and baseball seems disconnected from all but 3 or 4 restaurants. It's exciting how you can come down on an event night (or really, any night for that matter), and there's a buzz, not all cities can say that.

 

PS- The Browns moving wasn't great, but at the same time it probably was a huge benefit that we didn't combine the football/baseball stadiums when it was proposed, if that were the case who knows what Gateway would look like today...

 

On 3/10/2019 at 9:50 PM, freethink said:

There is a stretch of chain link fence across from Progressive Field and the Q on your left as you drive down Ontario. It starts at about Eagle Ave. and ends as you make the left turn onto Huron. It is rusted and weed infested and it runs along a broken up sidewalk. The city is so negligent in things like this. I have even emailed council members over the years. Well maybe someone else has finally noticed this. I found this conceptual video from AoDK and the Cleveland Leadership Center. At least someone is thinking about it.

 

 

Reminds me of the HIGH LINE on lower west side of Manhattan.  This idea rocks!

HIGH LINE.jpg

 

Love everything about this concept!

 

On 3/12/2019 at 1:39 AM, dave2017 said:

Love everything about this concept!

 

I like it a lot too. Although I wish Downtown could have some more family friendly amenities such as a playground or something. There's really not a lot of green space Downtown or that many parks nearby.

 

Hmm...Further evidence that we are being watched...

 

https://expo.cleveland.com/life-and-culture/g66l-2019/03/ad2d745c99592/grassroots-plan-for-running-biking-loop-over-downtown-bridges-deserves-support-steven-litt.html

 

On 3/12/2019 at 11:45 AM, imjustinjk said:

 

I like it a lot too. Although I wish Downtown could have some more family friendly amenities such as a playground or something. There's really not a lot of green space Downtown or that many parks nearby.

 

Not a lot of Green Space??  🤔🤷🏽‍♂️🤔  I disagree. with that.    There are a lot of Green spaces, but they are mixed use and not designated by age or specific activity/use.  I will agree, a proper playground or two wouldn't hurt. 

 

As more and more family units move into Downtown, to experience vertical living, family needs (elementary schools, pediatricians, playgrounds, retail, etc.) will need to be addressed.  Hopefully this will be discussed sooner rather than later.

 

On 3/17/2019 at 1:22 PM, freethink said:

Two thoughts:

1. Wow that’s a great idea.

2. Wow our riverfront sucks! 

 

Walkable, liveable  - we always hear these keywords used to describe what kind of city we’re trying to build - this idea makes so much sense that you wonder why it shouldn’t happen as fast as possible. We’re rightly focused  on buildings and development in this forum but when the dialogue is about how to create  a more desireable daily lifestyle - like this running/ bike loop  - I think it inevitably leads to a more attractive and dynamic city - where people want to be - and where new development organically follows. 

 

Fantastic plan.  Everyone involved should be proud and making a lot of noise to attract the attention of those who can move this forward.

 

Unfortunately, the part of Litt's article that didn't surprise me at all is:   "The Jackson administration did not respond to a request for comment."

 

This is the most closed off and uninvolved administration that I can remember.  It would be nice if Mayor Jackson could take his head out of the sand long enough to comment on something beneficial for the city.  

 

It is unfortunate that we do not have the leadership to make this a reality.

 

Fantastic idea. This reminds me of a smaller version of the Hudson River Greenway in NYC. As someone who hopes to live downtown in the upcoming years, and someone who runs almost every day, this would be great to see happen and would make downtown even more desirable. 

 

My only issue with the design is that I wish the path was wider. 

 

Litt states a price-tag of $1 million for the AoDK design, unless I'm misunderstood. Does that seem like a realistic cost estimate for this project, 'cause if so that doesn't feel too unattainable. 

 

If at all possible I would transform the Cuyahoga waterfront to the likes of the San Antonio riverwalk. A Venice-like attraction that is actually a story below street level. Its got lots of water features including artificial waterfalls, plenty of organized plant life like none other, and plenty of food and shops on the lower level of the riverwalk. If we could somehow revitalize the Cuyahoga to be more than a port stop and make it a lively place to eat, walk, and shop.

image.png.a7c50764bbedf13f0c3a2442992435fc.pngimage.png.63592d89cc77cc3e078db27ac7918e11.png

 

^ not a weed-choked chain link fence in sight. At some point in time the people and leadership in SA found a way. Why can’t Cleveland Ohio look like that? 

 

On 3/18/2019 at 2:07 AM, surfohio said:

^ not a weed-choked chain link fence in sight. At some point in time the people and leadership in SA found a way. Why can’t Cleveland Ohio look like that? 

 

This is their major attraction. So it gets lots of attention and maintenance.  What about other portions of the San Antonio? 

 

Why compare Cleveland with other cities when you're not comparing the cities as a whole?  It makes no sense.

 

On 3/18/2019 at 2:07 AM, surfohio said:

^ not a weed-choked chain link fence in sight. At some point in time the people and leadership in SA found a way. Why can’t Cleveland Ohio look like that? 

 

What does the rest of San Antonio look like? 

 

On 3/18/2019 at 8:29 AM, KJP said:

 

What does the rest of San Antonio look like? 

 

Highways

 

If I'm not mistaken, the San Antonio river walk is man made.  Thus, it can be easily manipulated.  They are able to drain the river walk and clean debris from it as well. 

 

The San Antonio River Walk is very nice, but it is essentially a ride at Epcot.  You can't compare it to a working industrial river

 

Also, neither the San Antonio Riverwalk, nor the Cuyahoga River are located in the Gateway District.  So back on topic, folks!

 

I've been to San Antonio several times. I actually went the first time just to see the Riverwalk. It's pretty amazing - nothing like it anywhere else in the US. And yes, it is a little Epcoty but so what. It works, it's beautiful and it's idiot proof as a tourist item. Meaning it's safe and readily accessible to all the major hotels. It has even been extended up river with a lock added ( a fun activity). Of course major residential/shopping has developed all along the river path so as an urban attraction it works in spades.

 

The rest of the city is pretty nice too. There's a hop on hop off bus that takes you to the local neighborhood sites and all in all I thought San Antonio was a very nice city. Oddly enough, for me at least, I was a little disappointed in the Alamo and I'm a history buff. 

 

As for re-creating something like that with the Cuyahoga it really is an apples /oranges thing. Both rivers are very different geologically. The San Antonio is more of a trench while we have a wide river valley. That being said, we should absolutely continue to develop what we have along our river. More housing, boardwalk/trails, extend the river taxi. promote more water activity and yes, I know there is a tension between recreational and working activity but we ought to be able to figure out ways in which both can share the river. We have a river. Take advantage of it. 

 

Well I see my reply is off topic now. Sorry.

 

On 3/18/2019 at 7:10 AM, MyTwoSense said:

 

This is their major attraction. So it gets lots of attention and maintenance.  What about other portions of the San Antonio? 

 

Why compare Cleveland with other cities when you're not comparing the cities as a whole?  It makes no sense.

The topic-within-a-topic-is pedestrian experience. Gateway is literally fenced off from the water; it’s a car-first part of town. It shouldn’t be. It borders the river. There should be better access to the river. The current situation is an embarrassment as Gateway is a major attraction. There’s a casino and TWO major league sports venues. The comparison makes sense. 

 

17 hours ago, surfohio said:

The topic-within-a-topic-is pedestrian experience. Gateway is literally fenced off from the water; it’s a car-first part of town. It shouldn’t be. It borders the river. There should be better access to the river. The current situation is an embarrassment as Gateway is a major attraction. There’s a casino and TWO major league sports venues. The comparison makes sense. 

 

You should have written this in your fist post as it would have added context.  Have you been to the RiverWalk in person?  What reasons should the area be open to the public other than "just to"?  However, my comments and response about comparing this small portion of San Antonio to Cleveland makes no sense.  Should something be built here?  Yes.  Thinking outside the box and building something across Ontario would be great.  At one point there was a plan to build a Marriott branded hotel.  

 

Looking at the video KJP posted, those overlooks and perches are great but there would still be NO access to the river. I would like to point out that the access to the water would be prohibited by the working rail lines. Nor would there be anything of interest to view.  Sans, ships navigating the river in spring, summer and winter.  If the area was to be developed there would need to be more than just benches and a public art.  There need to be something that compliments - not competes with - the businesses on Huron, Prospect, East 4 and East 9 Street.  Perhaps a seasonal popup.  an area featuring local food trucks, along with and informational and historical displays/Installations detailing the history of the area and why it's called "collision bend". 

 

In late January and February when it's below freezing, how many people are going to stroll or run in that area?  How many people are really going to use that land year round?  It's easy to say, "we need to build x thing because x city has x thing" when there not comparable in any form or fashion. 

 

On 3/18/2019 at 10:55 AM, X said:

Also, neither the San Antonio Riverwalk, nor the Cuyahoga River are located in the Gateway District.  So back on topic, folks!

 

Can you move the discussion to the Transportation or City Discussion areas? Maybe this forum? 

 

 

16 hours ago, MyTwoSense said:

 

You should have written this in your fist post as it would have added context.  Have you been to the RiverWalk in person?  What reasons should the area be open to the public other than "just to"?  However, my comments and response about comparing this small portion of San Antonio to Cleveland makes no sense.  Should something be built here?  Yes.  Thinking outside the box and building something across Ontario would be great.  At one point there was a plan to build a Marriott branded hotel.  

 

Looking at the video KJP posted, those overlooks and perches are great but there would still be NO access to the river. I would like to point out that the access to the water would be prohibited by the working rail lines. Nor would there be anything of interest to view.  Sans, ships navigating the river in spring, summer and winter.  If the area was to be developed there would need to be more than just benches and a public art.  There need to be something that compliments - not competes with - the businesses on Huron, Prospect, East 4 and East 9 Street.  Perhaps a seasonal popup.  an area featuring local food trucks, along with and informational and historical displays/Installations detailing the history of the area and why it's called "collision bend". 

 

In late January and February when it's below freezing, how many people are going to stroll or run in that area?  How many people are really going to use that land year round?  It's easy to say, "we need to build x thing because x city has x thing" when there not comparable in any form or fashion. 

Those are good points. I didn’t bring up Riverwalk initially, that was another poster. And again you’re right, there’s nothing there, except parking. And the Rta is another barrier. But Tower City Ampitheater was there RIP. And the casino 2.0 was supposed to be there. So the idea to connect is there, but not the political will, at least not yet. The jogging circuit is just another good idea. Here’s hoping. And maybe I’m wrong, but shouldn’t there be an RTA station there? 

 

[edit: sorry I’m in slow motion and on my phone X, pls move my post]

Edited by Stormtrek
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Why is the crown of the Huntington (BP/200 PS) Building suddenly not illuminated?  We have so few buildings lit up at night- it infuriates me when one of them suddenly shuts off 😅

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To put this in perspective, the 2015 budget for residential streets was only $4M.

 

Cleveland to target as much as $14M at side streets in 2019, but which streets will be on the paving list?

 

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- The city plans to devote more money to repaving side streets for the fourth year in a row, with the total this year expected to be as much as $14 million.

On Monday, members of City Council are scheduled to meet with the city’s head of public works, Michael Cox, and others from Mayor Frank Jackson’s administration to begin sorting out which streets will be on this year’s paving list.

 

https://www.cleveland.com/cityhall/2019/03/cleveland-to-target-as-much-as-14m-at-side-streets-in-2019-but-which-streets-will-be-targeted.html

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...since this thread is active, ever walk around and notice how many different types of streetlights there are around downtown streets? I swear, you can see 4 different types (at least!) on one street, I'm sure it's low on the overall needs list, but some parity would be nice! /endrant

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Whom is in charge of maintenance /removal of the string lights ,wrapped around the lamp posts, along Euclid Ave?  I noticed in the May Company thread that they still remain up.  

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20 minutes ago, GISguy said:

...since this thread is active, ever walk around and notice how many different types of streetlights there are around downtown streets? I swear, you can see 4 different types (at least!) on one street, I'm sure it's low on the overall needs list, but some parity would be nice! /endrant

 

A couple years ago, I went out on my bike one night and tried to count how many different types of street lights there were downtown. I took pics of 15 different ones, but I'm sure I missed some others. In other cities they have one style for the entirety of downtown. Downtown Detroit used to be similar to Cleveland in this regard, but they recently replaced all of their downtown street light posts. 

1.png

2.png

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^ The type on the horizontal arm, aiming downward, with the metal back reflector/enclosure used to be made at the Westinghouse factory on the west Shoreway.  (Made by yours truly for one college summer. 🙂

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There's nothing wrong with optimism, as long as you don't get your hopes up.

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3 hours ago, GISguy said:

...since this thread is active, ever walk around and notice how many different types of streetlights there are around downtown streets? I swear, you can see 4 different types (at least!) on one street, I'm sure it's low on the overall needs list, but some parity would be nice! /endrant

A long time pet peeve- believe me it has been covered on this forum endlessly 😅 

 

Supposedly.... they are working on converting (hopefully all?) these to Smart LED Streetlights.  

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Also does anyone know the timeline for the digital information boards I'm not exactly sure where that was originally posted...

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On 3/11/2019 at 12:12 AM, Stormtrek said:

 

I've always thought it was odd that the Ohio Bell building doesn't have a lit crown at night considering how integral illumination was for the Art Deco style. Could you imagine the dramatic difference of our skyline at night with an illuminated Ohio Bell building, preferably without the giant AT&T logo 😍

 

Wow! I thought that video looked great. What are the odds of a park actually happening there? Probably not great but it seems to dramatically improve the area at a negligible cost.

 

Wow that video's awesome, great vision overall.

 

Isn't the Cleveland Thermal Plant out of commission ever since they upgraded the Lakeside plant? I see a lot of potential to make a connection between Gateway and the flats (especially with all the speculation going on down there- Thunderbird, Great Lakes, (?)Football Stadium, etc.). Right now it's like they gave up on pedestrians past the old viaduct/crosswalk.

 

Additionally, and it isn't building and projects speculation, more of an observation, but overall Gateway is pretty well incorporated with the area, and with NuCLEus, it'll be moreso. I think about other cities (Buffalo in particular), how the arena and baseball seems disconnected from all but 3 or 4 restaurants. It's exciting how you can come down on an event night (or really, any night for that matter), and there's a buzz, not all cities can say that.

 

PS- The Browns moving wasn't great, but at the same time it probably was a huge benefit that we didn't combine the football/baseball stadiums when it was proposed, if that were the case who knows what Gateway would look like today...

 

Reminds me of the HIGH LINE on lower west side of Manhattan.  This idea rocks!

HIGH LINE.jpg

 

Love everything about this concept!

 

 

I like it a lot too. Although I wish Downtown could have some more family friendly amenities such as a playground or something. There's really not a lot of green space Downtown or that many parks nearby.

 

Hmm...Further evidence that we are being watched...

 

https://expo.cleveland.com/life-and-culture/g66l-2019/03/ad2d745c99592/grassroots-plan-for-running-biking-loop-over-downtown-bridges-deserves-support-steven-litt.html

 

 

Not a lot of Green Space??  🤔🤷🏽‍♂️🤔  I disagree. with that.    There are a lot of Green spaces, but they are mixed use and not designated by age or specific activity/use.  I will agree, a proper playground or two wouldn't hurt. 

 

As more and more family units move into Downtown, to experience vertical living, family needs (elementary schools, pediatricians, playgrounds, retail, etc.) will need to be addressed.  Hopefully this will be discussed sooner rather than later.

 

Two thoughts:

1. Wow that’s a great idea.

2. Wow our riverfront sucks! 

 

Walkable, liveable  - we always hear these keywords used to describe what kind of city we’re trying to build - this idea makes so much sense that you wonder why it shouldn’t happen as fast as possible. We’re rightly focused  on buildings and development in this forum but when the dialogue is about how to create  a more desireable daily lifestyle - like this running/ bike loop  - I think it inevitably leads to a more attractive and dynamic city - where people want to be - and where new development organically follows. 

 

Fantastic plan.  Everyone involved should be proud and making a lot of noise to attract the attention of those who can move this forward.

 

Unfortunately, the part of Litt's article that didn't surprise me at all is:   "The Jackson administration did not respond to a request for comment."

 

This is the most closed off and uninvolved administration that I can remember.  It would be nice if Mayor Jackson could take his head out of the sand long enough to comment on something beneficial for the city.  

 

It is unfortunate that we do not have the leadership to make this a reality.

 

Fantastic idea. This reminds me of a smaller version of the Hudson River Greenway in NYC. As someone who hopes to live downtown in the upcoming years, and someone who runs almost every day, this would be great to see happen and would make downtown even more desirable. 

 

My only issue with the design is that I wish the path was wider. 

 

Litt states a price-tag of $1 million for the AoDK design, unless I'm misunderstood. Does that seem like a realistic cost estimate for this project, 'cause if so that doesn't feel too unattainable. 

 

If at all possible I would transform the Cuyahoga waterfront to the likes of the San Antonio riverwalk. A Venice-like attraction that is actually a story below street level. Its got lots of water features including artificial waterfalls, plenty of organized plant life like none other, and plenty of food and shops on the lower level of the riverwalk. If we could somehow revitalize the Cuyahoga to be more than a port stop and make it a lively place to eat, walk, and shop.

image.png.a7c50764bbedf13f0c3a2442992435fc.pngimage.png.63592d89cc77cc3e078db27ac7918e11.png

 

^ not a weed-choked chain link fence in sight. At some point in time the people and leadership in SA found a way. Why can’t Cleveland Ohio look like that? 

 

 

This is their major attraction. So it gets lots of attention and maintenance.  What about other portions of the San Antonio? 

 

Why compare Cleveland with other cities when you're not comparing the cities as a whole?  It makes no sense.

 

 

What does the rest of San Antonio look like? 

 

 

Highways

 

If I'm not mistaken, the San Antonio river walk is man made.  Thus, it can be easily manipulated.  They are able to drain the river walk and clean debris from it as well. 

 

The San Antonio River Walk is very nice, but it is essentially a ride at Epcot.  You can't compare it to a working industrial river

 

Also, neither the San Antonio Riverwalk, nor the Cuyahoga River are located in the Gateway District.  So back on topic, folks!

 

I've been to San Antonio several times. I actually went the first time just to see the Riverwalk. It's pretty amazing - nothing like it anywhere else in the US. And yes, it is a little Epcoty but so what. It works, it's beautiful and it's idiot proof as a tourist item. Meaning it's safe and readily accessible to all the major hotels. It has even been extended up river with a lock added ( a fun activity). Of course major residential/shopping has developed all along the river path so as an urban attraction it works in spades.

 

The rest of the city is pretty nice too. There's a hop on hop off bus that takes you to the local neighborhood sites and all in all I thought San Antonio was a very nice city. Oddly enough, for me at least, I was a little disappointed in the Alamo and I'm a history buff. 

 

As for re-creating something like that with the Cuyahoga it really is an apples /oranges thing. Both rivers are very different geologically. The San Antonio is more of a trench while we have a wide river valley. That being said, we should absolutely continue to develop what we have along our river. More housing, boardwalk/trails, extend the river taxi. promote more water activity and yes, I know there is a tension between recreational and working activity but we ought to be able to figure out ways in which both can share the river. We have a river. Take advantage of it. 

 

Well I see my reply is off topic now. Sorry.

 

The topic-within-a-topic-is pedestrian experience. Gateway is literally fenced off from the water; it’s a car-first part of town. It shouldn’t be. It borders the river. There should be better access to the river. The current situation is an embarrassment as Gateway is a major attraction. There’s a casino and TWO major league sports venues. The comparison makes sense. 

 

 

You should have written this in your fist post as it would have added context.  Have you been to the RiverWalk in person?  What reasons should the area be open to the public other than "just to"?  However, my comments and response about comparing this small portion of San Antonio to Cleveland makes no sense.  Should something be built here?  Yes.  Thinking outside the box and building something across Ontario would be great.  At one point there was a plan to build a Marriott branded hotel.  

 

Looking at the video KJP posted, those overlooks and perches are great but there would still be NO access to the river. I would like to point out that the access to the water would be prohibited by the working rail lines. Nor would there be anything of interest to view.  Sans, ships navigating the river in spring, summer and winter.  If the area was to be developed there would need to be more than just benches and a public art.  There need to be something that compliments - not competes with - the businesses on Huron, Prospect, East 4 and East 9 Street.  Perhaps a seasonal popup.  an area featuring local food trucks, along with and informational and historical displays/Installations detailing the history of the area and why it's called "collision bend". 

 

In late January and February when it's below freezing, how many people are going to stroll or run in that area?  How many people are really going to use that land year round?  It's easy to say, "we need to build x thing because x city has x thing" when there not comparable in any form or fashion. 

 

 

Can you move the discussion to the Transportation or City Discussion areas? Maybe this forum? 

 

 

Those are good points. I didn’t bring up Riverwalk initially, that was another poster. And again you’re right, there’s nothing there, except parking. And the Rta is another barrier. But Tower City Ampitheater was there RIP. And the casino 2.0 was supposed to be there. So the idea to connect is there, but not the political will, at least not yet. The jogging circuit is just another good idea. Here’s hoping. And maybe I’m wrong, but shouldn’t there be an RTA station there? 

 

[edit: sorry I’m in slow motion and on my phone X, pls move my post]

 

 

Alright, sorry folks, I tried to move this conversation from another thread, and apparently the "Merge" option means to merge all the selected posts together into one post, because that is something that apparently would be useful to someone?  So what I've quoted here is an entire damned conversation by multiple people about the proposed jogging loop over the two high level bridges.

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