East Cleveland: News & Discussion

[McLovin]

In the future it may be beneficial for Cleveland to annex parts of what is currently East Cleveland, specifically the South Western most part from UC to the Euclid/Superior intersection. Cleveland is on better financial footing than EC and I'm pretty sure way more resources than any other nearby entity to absorb and stabilize the area. If Cleveland were given full autonomy over EC it may be a good thing. Things wouldn't turn around over night, but with the growth of UC, the existing infrastructure and number of developers interested in moving into EC it could be beneficial.

I agree with the UC part and I believe that can POSSIBLY lead to some UC development down superior avenue starting at 125th down to 105th and superior to connect what they have with heritage lane already along with what hough is set to become starting with the Upper Chester development. Going this route will allow them to create a larger more viable neighborhood that doesn't have gaps which is the issue now with Cleveland neighborhoods...

 

Superior from 125th to 105th has so many development opportunities because of empty lots already (110th and 108th pop in my head immediately) and abandoned storefronts that its ripe for development.

[McLovin]

Also now thinking about it I believe Cleveland should grab EC up until Windermere station and Shaw High and since shaw is so new they can redevelop the curriculum to something like John hay (Interview to get admitted, take a math test, have a at least a 3.0 to get in and maintain that or you're kicked out) so they have a strong performing school to go along with their neighborhood their trying to develop and have something the new residents can send their kids to. This is all dependent on if they gobble up EC by UC as well and have redevelopment plans for it, but if they will and do develop it this is vital for a new thriving neighborhood. The school can be 6-12 it's already a large school and allows for the residents to start their kids early.

[Clevelander17]

Also now thinking about it I believe Cleveland should grab EC up until Windermere station and Shaw High and since shaw is so new they can redevelop the curriculum to something like John hay (Interview to get admitted, take a math test, have a at least a 3.0 to get in and maintain that or you're kicked out) so they have a strong performing school to go along with their neighborhood their trying to develop and have something the new residents can send their kids to. This is all dependent on if they gobble up EC by UC as well and have redevelopment plans for it, but if they will and do develop it this is vital for a new thriving neighborhood. The school can be 6-12 it's already a large school and allows for the residents to start their kids early.

 

Although this is a nice idea in theory, as I mentioned on the C-D thread, cities and municipalities are independent from one another.  Just because cities may merge does not mean their districts automatically do. 

[KJP]

They may be independent municipalities, but political lines drawn on a map are not stone walls that keep East Cleveland's problems in East Cleveland. I believe the region has a responsibility to make sure that individual cities do not implode and pull more cities down with them.

[Clevelander17]

They may be independent municipalities, but political lines drawn on a map are not stone walls that keep East Cleveland's problems in East Cleveland. I believe the region has a responsibility to make sure that individual cities do not implode and pull more cities down with them.

 

I meant to say that the school districts don't automatically merge.  In other words, the ECSD would likely remain independent and thus Shaw probably would not be rolled into CMSD.  Although now that I think about it, I don't know how that would work with the whole mayor control situation.  If it were two other cities merging, the school districts would still exist unless there was a separate merger of school districts.

[KJP]

Redirected from the Cleveland general business discussion...

 

^If that happens, we can kiss E.C. goodbye.  I don't think the city can absorb that much of an impact on income taxes.

 

Agreed. If GE Lighting shuts down, it also removes a reason for Cleveland to want to absorb East Cleveland. GE Lighting's tax revenues at least offset some of the costs that would come from absorbing EC. Without GE, no city would want to absorb the hit from that financial anchor.

[Oldmanladyluck]

When Cleveland Clinic pulled out they at gave the city $15-$20 million or so, if memory serves me correctly.  That offset the blow, but that money is obviously gone at this point.  E.C. has no other major employers within it's borders, and has only 4,000 of it's citizens employed out of the entire 16,500.  Without merging, I just don't see how the city could survive.  And without GE, as you said it makes a merger less enticing.

 

This could prove to be a major issue affecting more than just E.C. and Cleveland.  And in a presidential year (if GE exits this year), I wonder if any help would come from the State at all.     

[KJP]

It won't. Ohio GOPers hate urban cities, and East Cleveland is their poster child as to why. They would rather just wall off the city, and let its citizens keep killing each other until they either decide to stop or until they're all gone.

[ink]

^That statement is way too broad and stereotyping. Some of the best urban initiatives in the state, like the historic tax credit, are championed by Rs.

[327]

Best thing the state could do for East Cleveland is facilitate a merger.

[KJP]

^That statement is way too broad and stereotyping. Some of the best urban initiatives in the state, like the historic tax credit, are championed by Rs.

 

And who also sought to rescind the tax credit last year until real estate developers cried foul and stopped them. Much of the anti-urbanism by the GOP is simply because the larger cities are primarily Democratic strongholds and a Republican doesn't want to do anything to help them. However in recent years there is an increasingly sinister, hateful, fundamentalist religion-based opposition to cities based on falsehoods that rural areas are places with family values and purity. Either way, anti-urban policies have frequently been enacted by the state, enabling urban sprawl even in no/slow-growth metros that benefit more conservative suburban and rural areas. The cities and Democrats deserve as much blame for not joining forces with each other to fight back as a stronger, unified constituency.

 

East Cleveland is perhaps Ohio's most notable victim of sprawl and anti-urbanism. By creating this example, the anti-urbanists can use it to create/expand more anti-urban policies.

[ink]

^That statement is way too broad and stereotyping. Some of the best urban initiatives in the state, like the historic tax credit, are championed by Rs.

 

And who also sought to rescind the tax credit last year until real estate developers cried foul and stopped them.

 

Regardless, the Republic majority never let the idea make it out of committee.

 

I'm not saying that there not anti-urban legislators or anti-urban state policy decisions, but aligning the GOP with an anti-urban agenda is overly broad and ignores many folks who can be urban advocates.

[Vincent_G]

Because it is one of two Ohio counties with a charter government, Cuyahoga County is authorized to function as a full-fledged municipality with home-rule powers. This is set out in the county charter, which also notes the county cannot usurp the municipal powers of a municipality within its borders without that municipality's consent. There is no reason, though, that East Cleveland could not surrender its charter and then be governed directly by the county as an unincorporated community. Arrangements like this are common in some other states.

 

There would be no requirement for East Cleveland's territory to be annexed by either of its bordering cities, though the county could presumably contract with those cities to provide services to East Cleveland.

[KJP]

East Cleveland scheduled to declare bankruptcy at council meeting tonight http://44112news.com/?p=8633

 

[jws]

Also now thinking about it I believe Cleveland should grab EC up until Windermere station and Shaw High and since shaw is so new they can redevelop the curriculum to something like John hay (Interview to get admitted, take a math test, have a at least a 3.0 to get in and maintain that or you're kicked out) so they have a strong performing school to go along with their neighborhood their trying to develop and have something the new residents can send their kids to. This is all dependent on if they gobble up EC by UC as well and have redevelopment plans for it, but if they will and do develop it this is vital for a new thriving neighborhood. The school can be 6-12 it's already a large school and allows for the residents to start their kids early.

 

This type of idea sits really well with me. Speaking from a sentimental, or I guess aesthetic standpoint, that area of EC - the residential streets between Euclid and Forest Hill Ave to the south and Terrace Rd to the north - could be huge architectural assets. The housing stock, while rough right now, has the potential to still act as a core for a desirable, functioning community should the significant negative factors facing EC somehow be addressed. It kills me to see streets like Rosemont Rd in such rough spots.

[inlovewithCLE]

Also now thinking about it I believe Cleveland should grab EC up until Windermere station and Shaw High and since shaw is so new they can redevelop the curriculum to something like John hay (Interview to get admitted, take a math test, have a at least a 3.0 to get in and maintain that or you're kicked out) so they have a strong performing school to go along with their neighborhood their trying to develop and have something the new residents can send their kids to. This is all dependent on if they gobble up EC by UC as well and have redevelopment plans for it, but if they will and do develop it this is vital for a new thriving neighborhood. The school can be 6-12 it's already a large school and allows for the residents to start their kids early.

 

This type of idea sits really well with me. Speaking from a sentimental, or I guess aesthetic standpoint, that area of EC - the residential streets between Euclid and Forest Hill Ave to the south and Terrace Rd to the north - could be huge architectural assets. The housing stock, while rough right now, has the potential to still act as a core for a desirable, functioning community should the significant negative factors facing EC somehow be addressed. It kills me to see streets like Rosemont Rd in such rough spots.

 

The schools are not part of any merger negotiation

[PoshSteve]

A very insightful interview with Mayor Norton from CityLab. Talks about what brought the city to where it is, and how he thinks bankruptcy and/or a merger with Cleveland would be of benefit.

 

http://www.citylab.com/politics/2016/06/a-suburb-on-the-brink-of-bankruptcy/486248/

[McLovin]

A very insightful interview with Mayor Norton from CityLab. Talks about what brought the city to where it is, and how he thinks bankruptcy and/or a merger with Cleveland would be of benefit.

 

http://www.citylab.com/politics/2016/06/a-suburb-on-the-brink-of-bankruptcy/486248/

Does anyone have any idea how much it would actually cost Cleveland to take over East Cleveland? Also what are some of the benefits, if any, a city gets for having a population of over 400,000?

[Old AmrapinVA]

A very insightful interview with Mayor Norton from CityLab. Talks about what brought the city to where it is, and how he thinks bankruptcy and/or a merger with Cleveland would be of benefit.

 

http://www.citylab.com/politics/2016/06/a-suburb-on-the-brink-of-bankruptcy/486248/

Does anyone have any idea how much it would actually cost Cleveland to take over East Cleveland? Also what are some of the benefits, if any, a city gets for having a population of over 400,000?

 

Cleveland and East Cleveland are still losing population. Would the combination be over 400,000 after 2020? Right now their combined populations are around 405K.

[CBC]

It's interesting that EC has no debt, at least in the tradition sense of the word. I found the interview to be very straight forward and  frank, it's refreshing.

[Hts121]

^^I think part of the hope would be that the merger would help reverse, or at least stagnate, the population loss for both.

[McLovin]

A very insightful interview with Mayor Norton from CityLab. Talks about what brought the city to where it is, and how he thinks bankruptcy and/or a merger with Cleveland would be of benefit.

 

http://www.citylab.com/politics/2016/06/a-suburb-on-the-brink-of-bankruptcy/486248/

Does anyone have any idea how much it would actually cost Cleveland to take over East Cleveland? Also what are some of the benefits, if any, a city gets for having a population of over 400,000?

 

Cleveland and East Cleveland are still losing population. Would the combination be over 400,000 after 2020? Right now their combined populations are around 405K.

Correct, I'm not sure if they will be above 400K by 2020 but this gives them a much better chance. If i remember correctly Cleveland lost a measly 500 or so residents, a very small amount. With what would become the "East Cleveland neighborhood" so close to U.C., a booming neighborhood running out of real estate, i believe the flood gates would open and so much development would occur in what was Easy Cleeveland. This could jump start the neighborhood and allow more businesses to have space to build in the city limits. With so much vacant land and abandoned properties, you seemingly are in a midtown situation which allows you a canvas to extend the vibrance feel of UC. With a combination of new business and more land for residential there would be a great chance to build on the 405K population. This is me being an optimist though.

 

Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk

 

 

[McLovin]

It's interesting that EC has no debt, at least in the tradition sense of the word. I found the interview to be very straight forward and  frank, it's refreshing.

I found that to be interesting as well. Wasn't one of the big discussions on the merger about the pros and cons of taking on East Clevelands debt? I may be wrong.

 

Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk

 

[Oldmanladyluck]

I heard one Glenville resident's perspective on E.C.'s potential merger:  It's sort of like a person who is pretty broke as it is and is barely maintaining his own house which needs a roof, gutters, downspouts, a new furnace, etc.,  has a cousin who has lost everything, has no home at all and can't help out with food, rent, or anything else... who wants to move in.  His perspective was, well, if E.C. is going to get attention when it comes to tearing down properties, fixing potholes, addressing crime, etc.- what about Glenville?  What about Collinwood?  What about the rest of the neighborhoods in the city which have been seeing the very same disinvestment which E.C. has seen but for a longer amount of time?  How does this merger help them?

 

It was an interesting perspective to say the least.

[Hts121]

I actually think those neighboring hoods would benefit the most from the merger.  Even if you are struggling with your own home, tearing down the crack house next door and consolidating the lots is a better situation to be in.

[Dougal]

It's more controversial than a Cleveland merger; but the easiest and most affordable path might be to unincorporate East Cleveland and let Cuyahoga County take over. 

[Clevelander17]

It's more controversial than a Cleveland merger; but the easiest and most affordable path might be to unincorporate East Cleveland and let Cuyahoga County take over. 

 

I've heard this proposed before...is it really possible?

[McLovin]

If Cuyahoga County were to get involved with anything, I'd rather see a city-county merger.

[Mov2Ohio]

If Cuyahoga County were to get involved with anything, I'd rather see a city-county merger.

 

Well taking over East Cleveland would be a start.

[Clevelander17]

So if the municipality were unincorporated, it would be on the same legal footing as Olmsted Township and Chagrin Falls Township?

[seicer]

My one negative takeaway from East Cleveland's mayor is that he believes that using traffic cameras for revenue over safety is a sound initiative that serves the city. Traffic cameras, the cities involved, and their respective companies are in the business solely to generate a profit, and with so many of the companies bribing local officials (like in Columbus to the south and in countless other municipalities), it would not surprise me if East Cleveland's mayor was bought. The camera targets, for the worse, disproportionally harm the poor who cannot defend the tickets - many of which are generated when the equipment malfunctions or when it is illegally operated.

 

The state of Ohio now requires an officer to be present next to a camera, but this is on appeal - by municipalities like East Cleveland. But unlike other cities that have put booths to station an officer next to the camera or have removed the cameras, East Cleveland continue to rake in the revenue - $500,000/month. That's what they are billing, and isn't representative of what they are collecting - but a figure like that makes you wonder how much they collect.

 

And if the appeal is lost, then East Cleveland is on the hook for reimbursements for illegal camera operation and can be held liable for those expenses.

[Old AmrapinVA]

A very insightful interview with Mayor Norton from CityLab. Talks about what brought the city to where it is, and how he thinks bankruptcy and/or a merger with Cleveland would be of benefit.

 

http://www.citylab.com/politics/2016/06/a-suburb-on-the-brink-of-bankruptcy/486248/

Does anyone have any idea how much it would actually cost Cleveland to take over East Cleveland? Also what are some of the benefits, if any, a city gets for having a population of over 400,000?

 

Cleveland and East Cleveland are still losing population. Would the combination be over 400,000 after 2020? Right now their combined populations are around 405K.

Correct, I'm not sure if they will be above 400K by 2020 but this gives them a much better chance. If i remember correctly Cleveland lost a measly 500 or so residents, a very small amount. With what would become the "East Cleveland neighborhood" so close to U.C., a booming neighborhood running out of real estate, i believe the flood gates would open and so much development would occur in what was Easy Cleeveland. This could jump start the neighborhood and allow more businesses to have space to build in the city limits. With so much vacant land and abandoned properties, you seemingly are in a midtown situation which allows you a canvas to extend the vibrance feel of UC. With a combination of new business and more land for residential there would be a great chance to build on the 405K population. This is me being an optimist though.

 

Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk

 

 

 

I hope you are right, I'm just looking at current stats.

 

East Cleveland has lost about 400 people since 2010. Cleveland lost around 1K this last year alone. If Cleveland keeps losing people at the pace it has this decade, it will be below 400k by 2020 even with EC. So any 400k+ benefits would be fleeting.

 

Again, I'd love to be wrong about this.

[inlovewithCLE]

In terms of development one of the biggest issues in CLE is that there isn't a lot of available green space to develop on. And it's cheaper to develop new out of freakin old farmland than it is to redevelop. So I have always supported the merger and I continue to do so, but if the county and the state would agree to help pay for tearing down all of the vacant structures in East Cleveland to get that land ready for development I believe that it would be tremendous. This would really be the only place in the city where you could basically build a neighborhood from scratch. East Cleveland is a place built for 40,000 people that has 17,000 in it. There are some streets that literally have one or two active households living on the entire street, so you don't have to worry much about the controversies that surround displacement and gentrification. You really could start over there. That's exciting to me. And having that on your border will inevitably help Collinwood and Glenville much more than a deteriorating, rotting East Cleveland does today

[skorasaurus]

I was a little curious about the impact of Lakeview Cemetery and Forest Hills Park on the East Cleveland so I did some rough measurements and calculations... I made sure not to include the parts of both amenities that are located in Cleveland Hts.

 

EC is 8.027 Square kilometers

Lakeview is about 26 hectares,

Forest Hills Park is 1.13 square KM.

 

So in percentages; Lakeview is about 3% of East Cleveland and Forest Hills is 14%...

 

edit, also did Nela Park, which is 33 HA.

[seicer]

No one will develop in East Cleveland as long as the city can't meet its obligations - and when the city has no rating. There is a newer subdivision up by Booth Hospital that has plenty of empty lots because of this problem specifically.

[McLovin]

In terms of development one of the biggest issues in CLE is that there isn't a lot of available green space to develop on. And it's cheaper to develop new out of freakin old farmland than it is to redevelop. So I have always supported the merger and I continue to do so, but if the county and the state would agree to help pay for tearing down all of the vacant structures in East Cleveland to get that land ready for development I believe that it would be tremendous. This would really be the only place in the city where you could basically build a neighborhood from scratch. East Cleveland is a place built for 40,000 people that has 17,000 in it. There are some streets that literally have one or two active households living on the entire street, so you don't have to worry much about the controversies that surround displacement and gentrification. You really could start over there. That's exciting to me. And having that on your border will inevitably help Collinwood and Glenville much more than a deteriorating, rotting East Cleveland does today

Only thing that would hurt me is seeing those once beautiful brick homes that line side streets possibly torn down. If Cleveland were to take it over I would want to hold out hope that those could be restored, Cleveland has a shortage of large brick homes like that.

[Dougal]

So if the municipality were unincorporated, it would be on the same legal footing as Olmsted Township and Chagrin Falls Township?

 

No very different. Townships are capable entities with pretty broad powers in Ohio.  The county would probably need a bit of organizational rework (or at least rethinking) to take on EC.  I doubt the current executive wants to do it. 

 

[Clevelander17]

So if the municipality were unincorporated, it would be on the same legal footing as Olmsted Township and Chagrin Falls Township?

 

No very different. Townships are capable entities with pretty broad powers in Ohio.  The county would probably need a bit of organizational rework (or at least rethinking) to take on EC.  I doubt the current executive wants to do it. 

 

 

Well I'm officially confused. I realize that townships have powers (though limited compared to municipalities), but as far as I understand, townships exist by default. The areas that are Olmsted Township and Chagrin Falls Township have been such pretty much since Ohio was divided up along these lines 200 years ago. These townships and all others were purposely excluded from the incorporation process which turned other area lands into either villages or cities.

 

I'm not sure if there's any precedent, but if an area decided to forgo its municipality status, it seems that it would simply go back to be a legal township.

[TPH2]

^ You are correct. If an area is not a village or a city, it is part of a township. The city of East Cleveland is part of what used to be East Cleveland Township. All but two (Olmsted & Chagrin Falls) townships in Cuyahoga County are defunct since they've become part of incorporated territory.

[BigDipper 80]

Yeah, townships in Ohio still exist underneath the municipality as a "paper township" even though the township government is abolished as soon as the township is annexed or incorporated. I think Ohio is the only state that does it like this, and honestly I still don't fully understand it.

[Clevelander17]

So I guess the question at hand is whether or not a city or village can hypothetically go the other direction.

[Dougal]

 

 

Well I'm officially confused. I realize that townships have powers (though limited compared to municipalities), but as far as I understand, townships exist by default.

 

Oops. I wrongly thought things changed under the new county charter. You are correct. And thus unincorporation is not an option apparently, since EC wouldn't be any better off as a township.

[McLovin]

Talked to Gary Norton today, briefly though because he was with his family. He mentioned that the merger progress was going slow, as expected and within a year and a half it can/should be on the ballot. He mentioned as well that he feels that it has a lot of support.

 

Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk

 

 

[KJP]

Today in East Cleveland Ludicrousness

Posted By Vince Grzegorek [email protected]> on Thu, Jul 28, 2016 at 11:50 am

Via Peggy Gallek at the East Cleveland city building, where every penny is literally and desperately needed and no threat, no matter how unfounded, is beyond uttering:

 

http://www.clevescene.com/scene-and-heard/archives/2016/07/28/today-in-east-cleveland-ludicrousness

 

 

[seicer]

Even worse, from WKYC:

 

"E CLE Judge William Dawson bans beating victim's family and supporters from entering court. Media only. Ohio courts presumed open. [...] In 25 years, never seen a judge ban public from court. Judge William Dawson just did it in E CLE. Media threatened w removal for objecting."

 

I mean, when the city LOCKED an innocent person in a CLOSET for four days with just milk and made him urinate on himself - and got sued and lost, what do you expect? The city is corrupt from the inside out, and no amount of pandering by the mayor - no matter how true his words may be, will fix the issue. Of course, after the judge awarded the victim $10 million, the city is contesting the ruling.

[KJP]

The toilet continues to swirl. Fewer than 9% voted. The mayor lost by 20 votes and the council president by 18...

 

East Cleveland votes to recall Mayor Gary Norton Jr. and City Council President Thomas Wheeler

http://www.newsnet5.com/news/local-news/cleveland-metro/east-cleveland-votes-to-recall-mayor-gary-norton-jr-and-councilman-thomas-wheeler

[KJP]

Courageous East Cleveland mayor Gary Norton narrowly recalled: https://t.co/5ZWLaJvVZO What next for troubled city?

[KJP]

A friend just shared this:

 

Having been raised in EC and knowing some of the "players" there, im more afraid for the city's future. It took three recall votes in the span of a year to get the president out. The group has an axe to grind, and no real solutions to restore the city's finances and neighborhoods. Just pure, petty politics. And an unnecessary $30,000 that the city has to pay for this election when it's struggling to pay its bills.

 

Another person on Facebook wrote:

 

I knew Gary Norton through work, when he was an aide to one of the county commissioners. Intelligent, hard-working, efficient, and the opposite of arrogant and overbearing, as sycophants from the commissioners usually are. I have nothing but compassion for Mayor Norton. He can walk away from the most thankless task imaginable with pride.

[X]

Was there any particular issue that brought about their recall?  Was it the merger talks?

[clvlndr]

I've been aware of Gary Norton when he was completing his urban planning studies while working with the County commissioners.  He seemed an engaged, bright guy who really was interested in moving EC forward for its own sake (as in, he wasn't deep in someone's pocket).  He partnered with UCI about upgrading the buffer areas with University Circle -- and he championed the Circle East town homes at Lakewood & Euclid.  He also moved EC toward merger with Cleveland because it is in the best interest of both cities even though a merger would have cost him his job... Gary Norton was the last best hope for EC.  Stupidity.