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East Cleveland finds $3.2 million in overlooked bank account

EAST CLEVELAND, Ohio — Mayor Gary Norton is used to discovering problems with his city’s financial records.

 

Now he’s found a missing $3.2 million.

 

The money, accumulating since 2006, was supposed to pay off bonds the city issued in 2005 to clear some of its debt and get out of fiscal emergency, Norton said.

 

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2012/04/east_cleveland_finds_32_millio.html

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Ever since the Mayor and Safety Director suggested that the EC Firefighters should spend their 'downtime' mowing grass in the parks, nothing surprises me with this city.

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Wow. I think I have a consulting project I could submit to EC!!

 

Seriously though, use that funding to leverage federal grants to clean abandoned industrial properties so they can be marketed to new employers.

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The mayor has already said that the money will be used as originally intended -- to pay off outstanding debt.

 

Boring!

 

And what's so outstanding about debt anyhoo..... ;)

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With the East Cleveland city council cutting police shifts from 14 to 4 officers per shift with one serving as a dispatcher and the city being designated as being in fiscal emergency, what do you think the future holds for the once great suburb?

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I think it is a stupid ploy to try to get the Sherriff to put deputies back on patrol there at the County's expense and/or to force Cleveland Heights and the City of Cleveland to step up their mutual aid contributions.  I don't think it will work.  Three patrol officers per shift is ridiculous.  It is downright dangerous..... for the officers.  There should be no less than two officers PER CAR in that city. 

 

I can't determine if this is the more stupid than the idea they had a few years ago to have the firefighters doing landscaping work around the city during their "downtime."  I never thought they would come up with a idea to rival that idiocracy

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I'm not as pessimistic about EC's motives here (maybe I am naive).  I think they're just broke, and there is no help on the horizon. 

 

The county or state should work with EC and help them (and insist that they do so) start to negotiate a merger with CH and Cleveland.  Maybe up-the-hill portion to CH and down-the-hill to Cleveland.  Better for EC to be involved in discussion about how and where they merge now, before the budget further implodes.

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^I think any plan like that would take a sizeable lump some or long term grant commitment from the state to help make it more palatable to the "lucky' adjoining municipalities.  More likely, IMHO, service decline and net deterioration of the housing stock will continue, population will continue to plummet, and the city will enter some kind of state receivership at some point.  Who knows what happens after that.

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I'm not as pessimistic about EC's motives here (maybe I am naive).  I think they're just broke, and there is no help on the horizon. 

 

The county or state should work with EC and help them (and insist that they do so) start to negotiate a merger with CH and Cleveland.  Maybe up-the-hill portion to CH and down-the-hill to Cleveland.  Better for EC to be involved in discussion about how and where they merge now, before the budget further implodes.

The problem, as we've discussed previously in various threads, is that no one wants the down the hill portions of EC. What advantage is there for Cleveland in taking an area that instantly becomes one of the worst slums in the city? It would require significant funds from either the state or county that just don't exist right now.

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Oh you can ensure there would be hell if theres even talks of merging EC with CH. Since i moved here in august its been almost amazing how residents and also people in the city and police look down on or even downright despise those who are "down the hill"

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You can rest assured that CH would never allow annexation of anything "down the hill."  But "the hill" itself, that could be open for discussion

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You can rest assured that CH would never allow annexation of anything "down the hill."  But "the hill" itself, that could be open for discussion

 

Exactly, since Forest Hills operates as one community.

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^That will never work or happen if EC where to dissolve and the surrounding communties annex.  Cleveland would never go for CH getting all the "good stuff" (relatively speaking of course since we are talking about EC) such as Forest Hills and Nela Park while they are stuck with the rest of the "junk", problems, costs and no tax base.

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^That will never work or happen if EC where to dissolve and the surrounding communties annex.  Cleveland would never go for CH getting all the "good stuff" (relatively speaking of course since we are talking about EC) such as Forest Hills and Nela Park while they are stuck with the rest of the "junk", problems, costs and no tax base.

 

Why would Cleveland care?  Who says Cleveland would even need to annex?  if EC did dissolve, is Cleveland obligated to absorb some or all portions of EC?  Is there a law on the books saying the residents of EC cannot decide the fate of their city/former city?

 

Like I said, Forest Hills operates as one historic district, so I guessing that would make it easier to absorb into CH.  However, who says the residents of EC FH would want to do that?  They may not want to pay the high CH taxes.

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In the future it may be beneficial for Cleveland to annex parts of what is currently East Cleveland, specifically the South Western most part from UC to the Euclid/Superior intersection. Cleveland is on better financial footing than EC and I'm pretty sure way more resources than any other nearby entity to absorb and stabilize the area. If Cleveland were given full autonomy over EC it may be a good thing. Things wouldn't turn around over night, but with the growth of UC, the existing infrastructure and number of developers interested in moving into EC it could be beneficial.

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In the future it may be beneficial for Cleveland to annex parts of what is currently East Cleveland, specifically the South Western most part from UC to the Euclid/Superior intersection. Cleveland is on better financial footing than EC and I'm pretty sure way more resources than any other nearby entity to absorb and stabilize the area. If Cleveland were given full autonomy over EC it may be a good thing. Things wouldn't turn around over night, but with the growth of UC, the existing infrastructure and number of developers interested in moving into EC it could be beneficial.

 

I think the Parts of EC in Euclid and near UC are most valuable.  Along with Nela Park section.  Cleveland would probably want all of that.  the Forest Hills section to Cleveland heights since it already intertwined and CH parks can probably manage the EC side of FH park.  If not, the reattach the EC section of FH to the Cleveland portion.

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In the future it may be beneficial for Cleveland to annex parts of what is currently East Cleveland, specifically the South Western most part from UC to the Euclid/Superior intersection. Cleveland is on better financial footing than EC and I'm pretty sure way more resources than any other nearby entity to absorb and stabilize the area. If Cleveland were given full autonomy over EC it may be a good thing. Things wouldn't turn around over night, but with the growth of UC, the existing infrastructure and number of developers interested in moving into EC it could be beneficial.

I agree with the UC part and I believe that can POSSIBLY lead to some UC development down superior avenue starting at 125th down to 105th and superior to connect what they have with heritage lane already along with what hough is set to become starting with the Upper Chester development. Going this route will allow them to create a larger more viable neighborhood that doesn't have gaps which is the issue now with Cleveland neighborhoods...

 

Superior from 125th to 105th has so many development opportunities because of empty lots already (110th and 108th pop in my head immediately) and abandoned storefronts that its ripe for development.

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Also now thinking about it I believe Cleveland should grab EC up until Windermere station and Shaw High and since shaw is so new they can redevelop the curriculum to something like John hay (Interview to get admitted, take a math test, have a at least a 3.0 to get in and maintain that or you're kicked out) so they have a strong performing school to go along with their neighborhood their trying to develop and have something the new residents can send their kids to. This is all dependent on if they gobble up EC by UC as well and have redevelopment plans for it, but if they will and do develop it this is vital for a new thriving neighborhood. The school can be 6-12 it's already a large school and allows for the residents to start their kids early.

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Also now thinking about it I believe Cleveland should grab EC up until Windermere station and Shaw High and since shaw is so new they can redevelop the curriculum to something like John hay (Interview to get admitted, take a math test, have a at least a 3.0 to get in and maintain that or you're kicked out) so they have a strong performing school to go along with their neighborhood their trying to develop and have something the new residents can send their kids to. This is all dependent on if they gobble up EC by UC as well and have redevelopment plans for it, but if they will and do develop it this is vital for a new thriving neighborhood. The school can be 6-12 it's already a large school and allows for the residents to start their kids early.

 

Although this is a nice idea in theory, as I mentioned on the C-D thread, cities and municipalities are independent from one another.  Just because cities may merge does not mean their districts automatically do. 

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They may be independent municipalities, but political lines drawn on a map are not stone walls that keep East Cleveland's problems in East Cleveland. I believe the region has a responsibility to make sure that individual cities do not implode and pull more cities down with them.

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They may be independent municipalities, but political lines drawn on a map are not stone walls that keep East Cleveland's problems in East Cleveland. I believe the region has a responsibility to make sure that individual cities do not implode and pull more cities down with them.

 

I meant to say that the school districts don't automatically merge.  In other words, the ECSD would likely remain independent and thus Shaw probably would not be rolled into CMSD.  Although now that I think about it, I don't know how that would work with the whole mayor control situation.  If it were two other cities merging, the school districts would still exist unless there was a separate merger of school districts.

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Redirected from the Cleveland general business discussion...

 

^If that happens, we can kiss E.C. goodbye.  I don't think the city can absorb that much of an impact on income taxes.

 

Agreed. If GE Lighting shuts down, it also removes a reason for Cleveland to want to absorb East Cleveland. GE Lighting's tax revenues at least offset some of the costs that would come from absorbing EC. Without GE, no city would want to absorb the hit from that financial anchor.

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When Cleveland Clinic pulled out they at gave the city $15-$20 million or so, if memory serves me correctly.  That offset the blow, but that money is obviously gone at this point.  E.C. has no other major employers within it's borders, and has only 4,000 of it's citizens employed out of the entire 16,500.  Without merging, I just don't see how the city could survive.  And without GE, as you said it makes a merger less enticing.

 

This could prove to be a major issue affecting more than just E.C. and Cleveland.  And in a presidential year (if GE exits this year), I wonder if any help would come from the State at all.     

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It won't. Ohio GOPers hate urban cities, and East Cleveland is their poster child as to why. They would rather just wall off the city, and let its citizens keep killing each other until they either decide to stop or until they're all gone.

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^That statement is way too broad and stereotyping. Some of the best urban initiatives in the state, like the historic tax credit, are championed by Rs.

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^That statement is way too broad and stereotyping. Some of the best urban initiatives in the state, like the historic tax credit, are championed by Rs.

 

And who also sought to rescind the tax credit last year until real estate developers cried foul and stopped them. Much of the anti-urbanism by the GOP is simply because the larger cities are primarily Democratic strongholds and a Republican doesn't want to do anything to help them. However in recent years there is an increasingly sinister, hateful, fundamentalist religion-based opposition to cities based on falsehoods that rural areas are places with family values and purity. Either way, anti-urban policies have frequently been enacted by the state, enabling urban sprawl even in no/slow-growth metros that benefit more conservative suburban and rural areas. The cities and Democrats deserve as much blame for not joining forces with each other to fight back as a stronger, unified constituency.

 

East Cleveland is perhaps Ohio's most notable victim of sprawl and anti-urbanism. By creating this example, the anti-urbanists can use it to create/expand more anti-urban policies.

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^That statement is way too broad and stereotyping. Some of the best urban initiatives in the state, like the historic tax credit, are championed by Rs.

 

And who also sought to rescind the tax credit last year until real estate developers cried foul and stopped them.

 

Regardless, the Republic majority never let the idea make it out of committee.

 

I'm not saying that there not anti-urban legislators or anti-urban state policy decisions, but aligning the GOP with an anti-urban agenda is overly broad and ignores many folks who can be urban advocates.

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Because it is one of two Ohio counties with a charter government, Cuyahoga County is authorized to function as a full-fledged municipality with home-rule powers. This is set out in the county charter, which also notes the county cannot usurp the municipal powers of a municipality within its borders without that municipality's consent. There is no reason, though, that East Cleveland could not surrender its charter and then be governed directly by the county as an unincorporated community. Arrangements like this are common in some other states.

 

There would be no requirement for East Cleveland's territory to be annexed by either of its bordering cities, though the county could presumably contract with those cities to provide services to East Cleveland.

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Also now thinking about it I believe Cleveland should grab EC up until Windermere station and Shaw High and since shaw is so new they can redevelop the curriculum to something like John hay (Interview to get admitted, take a math test, have a at least a 3.0 to get in and maintain that or you're kicked out) so they have a strong performing school to go along with their neighborhood their trying to develop and have something the new residents can send their kids to. This is all dependent on if they gobble up EC by UC as well and have redevelopment plans for it, but if they will and do develop it this is vital for a new thriving neighborhood. The school can be 6-12 it's already a large school and allows for the residents to start their kids early.

 

This type of idea sits really well with me. Speaking from a sentimental, or I guess aesthetic standpoint, that area of EC - the residential streets between Euclid and Forest Hill Ave to the south and Terrace Rd to the north - could be huge architectural assets. The housing stock, while rough right now, has the potential to still act as a core for a desirable, functioning community should the significant negative factors facing EC somehow be addressed. It kills me to see streets like Rosemont Rd in such rough spots.

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Also now thinking about it I believe Cleveland should grab EC up until Windermere station and Shaw High and since shaw is so new they can redevelop the curriculum to something like John hay (Interview to get admitted, take a math test, have a at least a 3.0 to get in and maintain that or you're kicked out) so they have a strong performing school to go along with their neighborhood their trying to develop and have something the new residents can send their kids to. This is all dependent on if they gobble up EC by UC as well and have redevelopment plans for it, but if they will and do develop it this is vital for a new thriving neighborhood. The school can be 6-12 it's already a large school and allows for the residents to start their kids early.

 

This type of idea sits really well with me. Speaking from a sentimental, or I guess aesthetic standpoint, that area of EC - the residential streets between Euclid and Forest Hill Ave to the south and Terrace Rd to the north - could be huge architectural assets. The housing stock, while rough right now, has the potential to still act as a core for a desirable, functioning community should the significant negative factors facing EC somehow be addressed. It kills me to see streets like Rosemont Rd in such rough spots.

 

The schools are not part of any merger negotiation

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A very insightful interview with Mayor Norton from CityLab. Talks about what brought the city to where it is, and how he thinks bankruptcy and/or a merger with Cleveland would be of benefit.

 

http://www.citylab.com/politics/2016/06/a-suburb-on-the-brink-of-bankruptcy/486248/

Does anyone have any idea how much it would actually cost Cleveland to take over East Cleveland? Also what are some of the benefits, if any, a city gets for having a population of over 400,000?

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A very insightful interview with Mayor Norton from CityLab. Talks about what brought the city to where it is, and how he thinks bankruptcy and/or a merger with Cleveland would be of benefit.

 

http://www.citylab.com/politics/2016/06/a-suburb-on-the-brink-of-bankruptcy/486248/

Does anyone have any idea how much it would actually cost Cleveland to take over East Cleveland? Also what are some of the benefits, if any, a city gets for having a population of over 400,000?

 

Cleveland and East Cleveland are still losing population. Would the combination be over 400,000 after 2020? Right now their combined populations are around 405K.

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It's interesting that EC has no debt, at least in the tradition sense of the word. I found the interview to be very straight forward and  frank, it's refreshing.

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^^I think part of the hope would be that the merger would help reverse, or at least stagnate, the population loss for both.

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