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Cincinnati: Downtown: Heritage Bank Center

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I am confident a new arena would rectify any issue with acts bypassing Cincy.  Honestly there are not that many of these shows and I am not concerned with the next time Katy Perry plays, but it would be nice to be a stop on everyone's tour.  There was an article that I am trying to find that discussed this very topic, and Cincinnati actually had the most concerts of any regional city (with all venues considered), but there were some large acts that did go to the newer arenas.  One thing to consider is that Riverbend is one of the most successful outdoor venues that gets the biggest shows of the summer each year (e.g. Radiohead) so I would think this would translate to an indoor venue.

 

US Bank arena is serviceable but definitely not on the same level as the newer arenas.

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Again, the arena we have was built by and is still owned by a private company.  And as I mentioned several months ago, we have a B-quality arena, meaning public financing of a new A-quality arena would mean $300-odd million dollars for an incremental improvement.  We wouldn't be going from no downtown arena to an A-class downtown arena.  We'd be throwing big money down to get a few more concerts each year, since the NBA and NHL are unlikely to relocate here for a variety of reasons. 

 

So a horrible ROI.  But this thread continues as if a new arena is on the horizon.  It's as pointless as speculating about a 100-floor office tower going up here.  It's just plain not going to happen nor should it. 

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Just read today that TD Garden in Boston is getting a $70M makeover. That arena is only 20 years old. Seats 20K

 

It needed a makeover the day after it opened.  They built it with the spirit of the old Garden in mind, and kept way too much of it!

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The question is what does a new arena bring to the table. NCAA tourney and Sweet 16 rounds, Hockey Final 4, a few extra concerts. Jake is right, is it worth 300-400 million for this? KC did that recently, but they did not build 2 new stadiums in the last decade. Maybe in 2025 it may be worth the capital investment.

 

Unless we are going to really push for an NBA or NHL team it is not worth it. I don't think there is the desire to push for either. I know KC built their arena in hopes of getting the NBA back and that has not happened yet and does not look like it will.

 

I do not see UC Basketball as the same draw as Louisville ball because, Cincy is a major league city and U of L is the only thing happening in Louisville. There is more diversity in Cincy to spread the dollars around. Therefore, even UC would not be a large enough tenant to support a 300-400 million upgrade of the arena. There needs to be an NHL or NBA team for that.

 

To be honest, NHL is attainable. Columbus may not like it but there are enough marginal NHL teams out there that would jump at a package to go to a better revenue market or better arena lease. If there was enough support for that it could be a possibility.

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Just wanted to give the concert fans here a quick comparison using Pollstar.com.  While not scientific (as in some shows may have yet to be announced), I looked at Cincinnati, vs Columbus (both arenas), vs Cleveland. 

 

Currently on the books for 2014:

 

Cincinnati:  US Bank Arena 5 shows

Tue 04/08/14 Bruce Springsteen & The E Street Band

Fri 05/09/14 Mike Epps

Fri 06/27/14 Bruno Mars

Sun 08/03/14 "Jesus Christ Superstar Arena Spectacular"

Wed 08/27/14 Austin Mahone

 

Columbus: Schottenstein Center  4 shows

Sun 04/13/14 Miley Cyrus

Fri 04/18/14 Cirque du Soleil - "Michael Jackson: The Immortal"

Sat 04/19/14 Cirque du Soleil - "Michael Jackson: The Immortal"  

Tue 04/29/14 Arcade Fire

Fri 05/02/14 Casting Crown

 

Columbus:  Nationwide Arena  4 shows

Tue 04/15/14 Bruce Springsteen & The E Street Band

Wed 04/30/14 Cher

Wed 08/13/14 Katy Perry

Sun 10/19/14 Fleetwood Mac

 

Cleveland:  Quicken Loans Arena  6 shows

Fri 05/02/14 Cher

Sun 05/18/14 Lady Gaga

Sat 06/28/14 Bruno Mars

Wed 07/09/14 "Walking With Dinosaurs"

Sun 08/10/14 "Jesus Christ Superstar Arena Spectacular"

Thu 08/14/14 Katy Perry

 

As you can see, Cincinnati's little ole US Bank Arena is holding it's own.  Of course if you invested $300 million in public dollars, you'd have that honeymoon year where they pay the Eagles to come play, and maybe a Billy Joel/Elton--marquis dates.  But after that it settles down into the doldrums of concert market routing.  What markets have we played, which ones do we need to play, and which ones can afford them.

 

       

 

 

 

 

 

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The Fleet Center in Boston is not an attractive building, but who cares?  It wasn't built with much or any public funding, it's home to two big-time tenants, and is easily reached by Boston's extensive public transportation. 

 

Again, how does someone argue that we should throw all this public money to get basically nothing in return?  Please, someone please lock this thread.  It's a waste of everybody's time. 

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As you can see, Cincinnati's little ole US Bank Arena is holding it's own.  Of course if you invested $300 million in public dollars, you'd have that honeymoon year where they pay the Eagles to come play, and maybe a Billy Joel/Elton--marquis dates.  But after that it settles down into the doldrums of concert market routing.  What markets have we played, which ones do we need to play, and which ones can afford them.

 

 

Good point, also, don't forget the huge acts do stadium tours and Cincinnati has been competing well for those in recent years.

 

bottom line, the ROI for concerts alone is not there. Need to have a pro team with 40 home dates a year to make it.

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Just wanted to give the concert fans here a quick comparison using Pollstar.com.  While not scientific (as in some shows may have yet to be announced), I looked at Cincinnati, vs Columbus (both arenas), vs Cleveland. 

 

Currently on the books for 2014:

 

Cincinnati:  US Bank Arena 5 shows

Tue 04/08/14 Bruce Springsteen & The E Street Band

Fri 05/09/14 Mike Epps

Fri 06/27/14 Bruno Mars

Sun 08/03/14 "Jesus Christ Superstar Arena Spectacular"

Wed 08/27/14 Austin Mahone

 

Columbus: Schottenstein Center  4 shows

Sun 04/13/14 Miley Cyrus

Fri 04/18/14 Cirque du Soleil - "Michael Jackson: The Immortal"

Sat 04/19/14 Cirque du Soleil - "Michael Jackson: The Immortal"  

Tue 04/29/14 Arcade Fire

Fri 05/02/14 Casting Crown

 

Columbus:  Nationwide Arena  4 shows

Tue 04/15/14 Bruce Springsteen & The E Street Band

Wed 04/30/14 Cher

Wed 08/13/14 Katy Perry

Sun 10/19/14 Fleetwood Mac

 

Cleveland:  Quicken Loans Arena  6 shows

Fri 05/02/14 Cher

Sun 05/18/14 Lady Gaga

Sat 06/28/14 Bruno Mars

Wed 07/09/14 "Walking With Dinosaurs"

Sun 08/10/14 "Jesus Christ Superstar Arena Spectacular"

Thu 08/14/14 Katy Perry

 

As you can see, Cincinnati's little ole US Bank Arena is holding it's own.  Of course if you invested $300 million in public dollars, you'd have that honeymoon year where they pay the Eagles to come play, and maybe a Billy Joel/Elton--marquis dates.  But after that it settles down into the doldrums of concert market routing.  What markets have we played, which ones do we need to play, and which ones can afford them.

 

       

 

 

 

 

 

 

The Eagles played US Bank last month, and have played it in the past. 

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Fleetwood Mac?

 

Not on the list.  They are doing both Columbus and Indy.  That's another thing--when you have as many accessible places as we have here, you're not going to get everyone logistically anyway.  Springsteen's current tour is a good example (it was a great show last night BTW).  He's coming to Cincinnati, Columbus, and Pittsburgh.  No Indy, no Louisville, no Cleveland, heck no Chicago or Detroit on the current schedule (which runs through May).  I think there's a lot that goes into deciding where to go.  Would we get more shows if we had a nicer arena?  Sure.  But even if the arena was just as nice as whatever is in Louisville or C-Bus, big acts just aren't going to play every single place. 

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The question is what does a new arena bring to the table. NCAA tourney and Sweet 16 rounds, Hockey Final 4, a few extra concerts. Jake is right, is it worth 300-400 million for this? KC did that recently, but they did not build 2 new stadiums in the last decade. Maybe in 2025 it may be worth the capital investment.

 

Unless we are going to really push for an NBA or NHL team it is not worth it. I don't think there is the desire to push for either. I know KC built their arena in hopes of getting the NBA back and that has not happened yet and does not look like it will.

 

I do not see UC Basketball as the same draw as Louisville ball because, Cincy is a major league city and U of L is the only thing happening in Louisville. There is more diversity in Cincy to spread the dollars around. Therefore, even UC would not be a large enough tenant to support a 300-400 million upgrade of the arena. There needs to be an NHL or NBA team for that.

 

To be honest, NHL is attainable. Columbus may not like it but there are enough marginal NHL teams out there that would jump at a package to go to a better revenue market or better arena lease. If there was enough support for that it could be a possibility.

 

Side note on the KC references you made. They may not have built new stadiums, but Arrowhead and Kauffman underwent major renovations recently. The city poured $850 million into the complex in 2007-2010 after paying the vast majority of $276 million for the Sprint Center, which was completed in 2007. KC spent over a billion dollars on sports venues in about a five year span.

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Screw the sleezy GOP ... Pearl Jam is coming to the arena in October!

 

But seriously, this city is long past due for a legitimate arena. US Bank is a garage compared to the new facilities in Louisville, Indy, Cbus, Denver, Dallas, etc. It would be nice for it to come with a new NHL/NBA team, but Kansas City built a state-of-the-art facility without a major sports tennant. And now that they have it, they're always on the short list of relocation possibilities for the NHL. If KC (or Cleveland, Pittsburgh and St. Louis for that matter), which already has MLB, NFL, MLS and major college sports nearby, can support a NBA or NHL team, why couldn't Cincinnati?

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Oh dear lord can we please shut down this thread?  This was a convenient explanation for the party not choosing here.  There is absolutely nothing wrong with this arena from the perspective of a convention of this kind -- the luxury boxes are a non-issue.

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Jake, the arena is outdated and it would not put the best face out there for the national media, etc. who would be at the event. Yes, it would be functional, but at the end of the day, when there are much nicer facilities, all else being equal, US Bank was not going to cut it. What needs to be decided is that in the future, is the cost benefit analysis enough to support building a new one. At this time, I agree with you it is not, but know that it comes with trade offs.

 

KC built their arena with the hopes of bringing an NBA team there and you can see it is a lightly used place. Look at San Antonio with the Alamodome. Also not the best use of public money. Indy was lucky when they built the hoosier dome years ago, but most places are not that fortuitous. By the time an NBA team would go to KC, the arena is out of date and they would need a new one.

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I'm still not convinced that any taxpayer money should be spent on building a new arena in Cincinnati. Especially until the two new stadiums are paid off. There are lot of things that would have higher ROI's that we could spend our money on instead. Anything from rehabbing Union Terminal and Music Hall, to funding the Port Authority, to funding and expanding METRO, to the arts and culture levy that was proposed a few years ago.

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You can choose to stop receiving notifications from this topic if you want. You don't need to keep asking for the topic to be shut down.

 

Well this entire thread is off-topic.

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The big thing KC had going for them when they built their arena, their stadiums were decades old and no longer being paid for by public bonds (at least the majority of it). Maybe in another 10+ years it could be worth exploring a new arena with public money.

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The big thing KC had going for them when they built their arena, their stadiums were decades old and no longer being paid for by public bonds (at least the majority of it). Maybe in another 10+ years it could be worth exploring a new arena with public money.

 

Interesting point. I know Kauffman Stadium (Kansas City Royals baseball team for you non-sports people) was recently modernized but I don't know about Arrowhead. Was the Kauffman work privately funded?

 

From about 10 posts up the thread...

 

"Side note on the KC references you made. They may not have built new stadiums, but Arrowhead and Kauffman underwent major renovations recently. The city poured $850 million into the complex in 2007-2010 after paying the vast majority of $276 million for the Sprint Center, which was completed in 2007. KC spent over a billion dollars on sports venues in about a five year span."

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There is no appetite for a new arena in Cincinnati nor a real appetite for another pro franchise such as the NBA, ( I think the NHL would be a better fit considering we have 2 college basketball powers) which is why a new arena is not gonna happen for a very long time. If I had to guess I think a massive convention center project will happen before a new arena but anyway, MAYBE landing a political convention and more concerts is no reason the public nor I will accept dropping 350 mil on a new arena. Yes people do want UC to do something for the Basketball program which will likely be a full renovation of 5/3 arena but that's it. A joint reno of us bank arena on behalf of UC basketball would be fine too. The idea of Cincinnati really missing out on concerts to other cities and that hurting us is silly, the fact is big acts still come to Cincinnati via riverbend and other venues. When it comes to the biggest concert events that can sell stadiums out they do come to Cincinnati such as Beyonce and Jay Z that will be here in a few weeks at Great American Ballpark it will draw Thousands and Thousands of out of town guest and is the biggest and most expensive ( ticket prices per Forbes article)of the year and as a side note Cincinnati is the only Midwest stop for that tour outside of a July date at Chicago's Soldiers Field. My point is Cincinnati will be just fine without a new arena for now at least.

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U.S. Bank Arena upgrade plans back at square one

 

Pick your saying when it comes to U.S. Bank Arena.

 

Cincinnati is between a rock and a hard place. Upgrading the arena will cost $100 million, according to its owner. Not upgrading will cost the city high-profile events.

 

Or you could go with the chicken and egg. It doesn't make sense to pour public and private dollars into the arena without a major tenant besides the Cincinnati Cyclones, a minor-league hockey team. Another tenant likely won't commit without knowing an upgrade is imminent.

 

Either way, there are limited options for the 39-year-old, privately owned Downtown facility, which hasn't had a major renovation since 1997. The most recent window of opportunity closed in May, when Cincinnati withdrew its bid to host the 2016 Republican National Convention.

 

[http://www.cincinnati.com/story/money/2014/06/19/us-bank-arena-upgrade-plans-back-square-one/11028467/]Cont[/url]


"It's just fate, as usual, keeping its bargain and screwing us in the fine print..." - John Crichton

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Anyone see this?

 

Nederlander Entertainment, AEG Unveil U.S. Bank Arena Renovation Concepts

MSA Sport designs new vision for downtown arena

 

CINCINNATI - July 28, 2015 – Nederlander Entertainment and AEG Facilities today released renovation concepts for U.S. Bank Arena, designed by local architectural firm MSA Sport.

 

“Cincinnati has proven that it can successfully host major events, including the MLB All-Star Game and the 2012 World Choir Games, but we know we need to improve our major indoor sports and entertainment venue to continue to be competitive for major events and national acts,” said Ray Harris, CEO of Nederlander Entertainment, which owns U.S. Bank Arena in partnership with AEG. “We’re confident this vision for a new and dramatically upgraded U.S. Bank Arena, when implemented, will give us the ability to compete for and deliver major events on a consistent basis. This is a critical component of our community’s economic development.”

 

150722_Arena%20Concept_Presentation11.jpg

 

http://usbankarena.com/whatsnextcincy

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Anyone see this?

 

Nederlander Entertainment, AEG Unveil U.S. Bank Arena Renovation Concepts

MSA Sport designs new vision for downtown arena

 

CINCINNATI - July 28, 2015 – Nederlander Entertainment and AEG Facilities today released renovation concepts for U.S. Bank Arena, designed by local architectural firm MSA Sport.

 

“Cincinnati has proven that it can successfully host major events, including the MLB All-Star Game and the 2012 World Choir Games, but we know we need to improve our major indoor sports and entertainment venue to continue to be competitive for major events and national acts,” said Ray Harris, CEO of Nederlander Entertainment, which owns U.S. Bank Arena in partnership with AEG. “We’re confident this vision for a new and dramatically upgraded U.S. Bank Arena, when implemented, will give us the ability to compete for and deliver major events on a consistent basis. This is a critical component of our community’s economic development.”

 

150722_Arena%20Concept_Presentation11.jpg

 

http://usbankarena.com/whatsnextcincy

 

Looks awesome. Hope it has a private sponsorship financing plan though.

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Wowzers!  I certainly didn't expect the read about this!  This certainly appears to be a huge upgrade over the current state of the facility.

 

So if UC isn't moving basketball games downtown, I wonder how they are making this work financially?

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oh snap.  this came out of nowhere.  love it.

 

Nederlander and AEG didn’t say how much they expect to spend on the renovation of the privately owned arena or what the timeline for the project could be.

 

aw, man.  shouldn't have gotten my hopes up before i finished the article.

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“My concern is that’s not even going to get you up to par with Yum Center,” he said. “I don’t even think $100 million is going to be enough. We’d be putting a Band-Aid on a bleeding wound.”

 

I agree with this statement. The site lines are terrible compared to more modern arenas.

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“My concern is that’s not even going to get you up to par with Yum Center,” he said. “I don’t even think $100 million is going to be enough. We’d be putting a Band-Aid on a bleeding wound.”

 

I agree with this statement. The site lines are terrible compared to more modern arenas.

 

Who made that statement?

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