Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Guest TBideon

In The World: Syria

Recommended Posts

I wouldn't have criticized Trump if he had done nothing here, but I won't criticize him for what he did.  This is the type of military strike (assuming no escalation) which I have always advocated for on our part.  Park a battleship off the coast and pound a few strategic military targets.  So you won't catch me being a hypocrite here.

 

Now let's see if all those conservatives who bashed Obama for taking some action in Libya without Congress go after Trump in a similar way.  I doubt it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Finally some real action against Syria/Russia after 7 years of empty threats by Obama.  D's can continue on with the their fairy tales about Trump/Russia ties, but actions speak louder than words, and Putin just got a ginormous wake-up call that we finally have a President with a pair.  Rest assured that China is taking notes as well with their enabling of North Korea.

 

Now, back to fake news...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

^ There has been some push back from congress from Rand Paul, Justin Amash and I think Ted Cruz.  I think this strategy of limited missile strikes is fine but there needs to be an overall comprehensive plan.  I do have faith in Mattis to do this right.  It appears that Trump might actually be listening to the smart people in his administration (i.e. not Steve Bannon)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

^ leave it to 8titles to continue living in a fantasy land.  Just 3 days ago the administration was cool with Assad and they have completely flipped on it.  Putin has no fear from his one of his puppets attacking another one of his puppets.  Believe me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think Trump's bombing is feel-good idiocy for the folks back home and nothing more. Contra to popular narrative, Obama's restraint re. Syria was one of his best decisions. The idea that more US intervention in Syria would make the US safer and help civilians in the long run seem awfully far fetched, IMHO. Rinse lather repeat.

 

^Oh, all we need is sensible comprehensive plan? Well my bad, if that's the only missing piece, bomb away.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think it is an extremely complicated issue.... more so in Syria than perhaps anywhere else we have been involved.  I will say that it is more than somewhat hypocritical to claim to care so much for the very same children to whom you refuse to offer safe haven.

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The only 'pair' Trump has is a set of teenie-weenie hands.  It doesn't take balls to order the strike he did last night..... or to the extent it does, that pair is on the same scale as what it took to strike Libya or go into Pakistan to capture Bin Laden. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Finally some real action against Syria/Russia after 7 years of empty threats by Obama.  D's can continue on with the their fairy tales about Trump/Russia ties, but actions speak louder than words, and Putin just got a ginormous wake-up call that we finally have a President with a pair.  Rest assured that China is taking notes as well with their enabling of North Korea.

 

Now, back to fake news...

 

Like this?

https://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,26694.msg848063.html#msg848063


"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't like any president (let alone one as impulsive, vindictive, and gullible as Trump) attacking another country without congress' authorization.  Should it have been done?  I don't know, but I do know I don't like the way it happened.  Also, most sane people realize at this point that our president lies or distorts the facts so often that it is nearly impossible to know if what he says is accurate.  If we can't trust him to talk about his inauguration truthfully, why are we letting him order attacks without oversight from another branch?  I'm fuzzy on the laws regarding this, but it feels like it sets bad precedent (although precedent was likely set in Bush jr days if I remember correctly).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Trump may as well have received congressional support by the amount of time he gave Russia and Syria to clear out the base. It looks like they were given a 2hr notice. It looks like their best planes were flown out.  They probably ran out of pilots to get the other planes that were still in some of the hangars.  So Assad lost 6-8 Migs from the early indications. The airport won't ever be as fully operational as it was but i can see them bringing back a squadron in a few weeks.

  A message was sent to not use chemical weapons. That may dissuade Assad from using nerve agents again. He'll likely test this with continued barrel bombs with chlorine though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm really not worried.  It has to be for show.  Russia does not want to pick a fight with our Navy.

 

And the Russians are going in to strengthen air defenses for Assad.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm really not worried.  It has to be for show.  Russia does not want to pick a fight with our Navy.

 

This much is clearly true.  But that's the thing about escalation, is that sometimes it can just lead to people feeling like they need to do things they don't want to do.  Multiply that times many, many decisionmakers all pressed for time and operating on instinct rather than coordinated planning because of that compressed time, or simply because no one feels like they can afford to be the first one to back down, and you've got a powderkeg and a sparkler in close proximity.

 

Absent nuclear weapons, Russia is no serious conventional threat to us anywhere that we really care about.  But (a) they do have nuclear weapons, a fact that deserves occasional repetition, and (b) Syria really doesn't qualify as "anywhere that we really care about."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nukes aside, Russia is still able to do what it always did in the Cold War..... which is make the enemy we are fighting more formidable.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nukes aside, Russia is still able to do what it always did in the Cold War..... which is make the enemy we are fighting more formidable.

 

And prop up puppets/dictators, including the one we call POTUS.  Make him look tough and strong in the face of adversity and scandal.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What a silly goofball. If he didn't have the power of life and death, he'd be just another circus performer blowing his daddy's trust fund on girls, gambling and gangsters...

 

983902_10207235308715895_7067767188596042923_n.jpg?oh=f2ba2a76ec2e9c8291d5001f28604d60&oe=5991061F


"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

U.S. missiles did as little damage in Syria as possible, and Russia chose not to use S-400 defense

http://www.palmerreport.com/opinion/u-s-missiles-did-as-little-damage-in-syria-as-possible-and-russia-chose-not-to-shoot-them-down/2215/

 

How did Donald Trump know to build up U.S. troops in Syria just BEFORE the chemical gas attack?

http://www.palmerreport.com/opinion/how-did-donald-trump-know-to-build-up-u-s-troops-in-syria-just-before-the-gas-attack/2214/


"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nukes aside, Russia is still able to do what it always did in the Cold War..... which is make the enemy we are fighting more formidable.

 

Well, sure, but that's what proxy war effectively is, and we did it to them in Afghanistan quite effectively as well.  For that matter, we could do it today in Ukraine if we wanted.  While it can make the conflict more prolonged and inconclusive in the local theater, it also does cut down on the greater strategic risk of runaway escalation.  I'd rather not fight the Assad regime at all, but if we do, I'd rather fight Russian-assisted Syrians than actually fight the Russians.

 

And, of course, Russia has its own economic calculations to do with its limited budget and manpower.  Supporting Assad is not the only demand on their budget.  Not even close, considering what they have going on themselves in Ukraine, in which they're involved directly, not by proxy (unless you buy the Donbas separatists as a legitimate independent force independent of direct Russian participation, which is something of a laugher).  There are limits to how much Russia will extend itself to support Assad.  Those limits I just think are still greater than the limits of our own commitment to ousting him (or even seriously crippling him).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What a silly goofball. If he didn't have the power of life and death, he'd be just another circus performer blowing his daddy's trust fund on girls, gambling and gangsters...

 

983902_10207235308715895_7067767188596042923_n.jpg?oh=f2ba2a76ec2e9c8291d5001f28604d60&oe=5991061F

 

Give him a break. I get it you seethe at the sound of his name, but it was the right call on this. If Obama had done this 4 years ago, Assaad would have thought twice before he tried this again.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Rest assured that China is taking notes as well with their enabling of North Korea.

 

Trump ordered this attack and then opened his door to let Xi Jinping into his home for dinner. Missiles flew as they dined. I'm sure that message was not lost on the Chinese president.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

^ What are you even talking about? No one is talking about intimidation. The message was that China needs to get serious with North Korea or the US will take care of it. Whether or not or how much they are "intimidated" is not really relevant.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

U.S. missiles did as little damage in Syria as possible, and Russia chose not to use S-400 defense

http://www.palmerreport.com/opinion/u-s-missiles-did-as-little-damage-in-syria-as-possible-and-russia-chose-not-to-shoot-them-down/2215/

 

I saw a report that the Syrians were given a 2 hour warning as to which base was going to be attacked--so they scrambled most all of their aircraft out of there.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What a silly goofball. If he didn't have the power of life and death, he'd be just another circus performer blowing his daddy's trust fund on girls, gambling and gangsters...

 

983902_10207235308715895_7067767188596042923_n.jpg?oh=f2ba2a76ec2e9c8291d5001f28604d60&oe=5991061F

 

Give him a break. I get it you seethe at the sound of his name, but it was the right call on this. If Obama had done this 4 years ago, Assaad would have thought twice before he tried this again.

 

UMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM....did you check the date on this?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, Trump said this in 2013, when it did not matter what he thought or said. It was a stupid comment then, but he also was not privy to information that he has now.

 

My point is, Obama should have done this in 2013, he was too chicken. If he showed Assad this would not be tolerated, even if the actions amounted to a pin prick, then maybe the chemical weapon attack from last week may never have happened.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, Trump said this in 2013, when it did not matter what he thought or said. It was a stupid comment then, but he also was not privy to information that he has now.

 

My point is, Obama should have done this in 2013, he was too chicken. If he showed Assad this would not be tolerated, even if the actions amounted to a pin prick, then maybe the chemical weapon attack from last week may never have happened.

 

I get your uncontrollable desire to try to emasculate the man, but not taking action in Syria had nothing to with being "chicken" or whatever other school yard name you want to throw at him.  Ordering strikes from afar is not a sign of 'toughness'.  Any wimp with authority can do that.  Strength comes in many forms and sometimes it is best exemplified by not acting on impulse or what you may be told is popular.  No comment here on whether Obama's decision not to strike was wrong or whether Trump's decision was right.  I understand both.  This is an extremely complicated situation in Syria.  There is no apparent path to victory here. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, Trump said this in 2013, when it did not matter what he thought or said. It was a stupid comment then, but he also was not privy to information that he has now.

 

My point is, Obama should have done this in 2013, he was too chicken. If he showed Assad this would not be tolerated, even if the actions amounted to a pin prick, then maybe the chemical weapon attack from last week may never have happened.

 

I get your uncontrollable desire to try to emasculate the man, but not taking action in Syria had nothing to with being "chicken" or whatever other school yard name you want to throw at him.  Ordering strikes from afar is not a sign of 'toughness'.  Any wimp with authority can do that.  Strength comes in many forms and sometimes it is best exemplified by not acting on impulse or what you may be told is popular.  No comment here on whether Obama's decision not to strike was wrong or whether Trump's decision was right.  I understand both.  This is an extremely complicated situation in Syria.  There is no apparent path to victory here. 

 

Obama's biggest failure was not his failure to act, it was publicly drawing a red line and failing to act. THis killed his credibility.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Obama's biggest failure was not his failure to act, it was publicly drawing a red line and failing to act. THis killed his credibility.

 

No it did not.  He was still much more highly respected around the globe than his predecessor and certainly exponentially more than his successor. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Reuters is reporting that Syrian war planes have been taking off from the airfield that was bombed last night.  No body knew that military operations could be so complicated.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

^ Leaving the runway in tact was almost certainly a strategic decision. If the US had wanted to destroy it, we would have. Cratering a runway is not exactly a difficult task for our military. The decision was to target aircraft, hangars, fuel tanks, fuel pumps, defenses, etc. Taking the entire base out of operation was likely viewed as too extreme. As I've been saying, this was a measured and calculated punishment, it was not meant to be a death blow. Warning Russia obviously allowed Syria to take some precautionary measures, save a few planes and a few lives, but this was worth it to avoid accidentally starting WWIII.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

^ Leaving the runway in tact was almost certainly a strategic decision. If the US had wanted to destroy it, we would have. Cratering a runway is not exactly a difficult task for our military. The decision was to target aircraft, hangars, fuel tanks, fuel pumps, defenses, etc. Taking the entire base out of operation was likely viewed as too extreme. As I've been saying, this was a measured and calculated punishment, it was not meant to be a death blow. Warning Russia obviously allowed Syria to take some precautionary measures, save a few planes and a few lives, but this was worth it to avoid accidentally starting WWIII.

 

It's almost pure theater.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

^^ it looks like they threw some missiles away for no purpose.  Assad will continue what he's been doing.  Typical trump move, all sizzle no steak.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

^ Leaving the runway in tact was almost certainly a strategic decision. If the US had wanted to destroy it, we would have. Cratering a runway is not exactly a difficult task for our military. The decision was to target aircraft, hangars, fuel tanks, fuel pumps, defenses, etc. Taking the entire base out of operation was likely viewed as too extreme. As I've been saying, this was a measured and calculated punishment, it was not meant to be a death blow. Warning Russia obviously allowed Syria to take some precautionary measures, save a few planes and a few lives, but this was worth it to avoid accidentally starting WWIII.

 

Seems to me that a measured and calculated punishment would've been to eliminate the airstrips from which the planes capable of dropping these bombs can take off.  Supposedly Syria only has one or two which fit the bill.  That is what was suggested by a commentator on CNN the day the chemical weapons attack occurred..... and I heard it repeated elsewhere as well.  Maybe Trump was watching?  He does seem to get a lot of his intel from cable news. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

^ it's better to just fire off $90,000,000 of missiles and take out 6 planes.  It's almost like Trump just wanted to look tough without  shaking things up too much. SAD!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

^ it's better to just fire off $90,000,000 of missiles and take out 6 planes.  It's almost like Trump just wanted to look tough without  shaking things up too much. SAD!

 

Well he did warn them we were about to do it...which to a point I understand.  You don't want to kill 40 Russian military advisors when they just helped you get elected ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

^ Your "6 planes" number is straight from the mouth of a Russian general. You sure do buy into that Russian propaganda rather easily! The US stated they destroyed 20 aircraft. Even Syria admits to 15. I'll believe our military over Russia's. Photos indicate far more than 6 hangers burnt out. You can look at the photos online by the way - you don't just have to take Russia's word for everything.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Worth noting, even in our little UO microcosm here, that the Syrian adventure has created a proper diversion.  No one is talking Nunes, Flynn, Rice, and investigations.  Hopefully they get those going soon.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

^^ OK $90 million for 15 planes.  It took 60 missiles to blow up 15 planes.  Assad's laughing at Chump.

 

Btw...he is using chemical weapons today too.  It's almost like world leaders have no fear of a game show host clown.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...