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Cleveland: General Tower City Center Developments

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On 4/26/2019 at 2:29 PM, Terdolph said:

I feel bad about this.  I think that blockchain is largely a scam.  I hate to see the TT dissembled for this.  It could do fine if the city would pony up the cash, like lots of other cities have done to put an anchor department store at Tower City.  

 

Also, I think that the apartments are a bad idea.  The city needs some decent Class B office space too.

I have 3 questions.....

#1 Why does downtown Cleveland "need" an anchor department store in Tower City?

#2 Why are the apartments a bad idea?

#3 Why does it need more B class office space? Theres plenty of it already sitting around vacant in numerous locations throughout downtown if it was truly needed. 

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3 hours ago, PKorf said:

I have 3 questions.....

#1 Why does downtown Cleveland "need" an anchor department store in Tower City?

#2 Why are the apartments a bad idea?

#3 Why does it need more B class office space? Theres plenty of it already sitting around vacant in numerous locations throughout downtown if it was truly needed. 

I have three answers.

 

1.  No mall can survive without at least one anchor tenant.

2. The apartments are a bad idea for the same reason that apartments are a bad idea in the Standard Building, no parking.   Also, office space on Public Square is still desirable and rare.  All the PS office space is leased-vacancy rates in those buildings is below 10%.

3.  There is almost no class B office space available in the business district anymore.  It is either all off market or converted to apartments.

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1 hour ago, Terdolph said:

I have three answers.

 

1.  No mall can survive without at least one anchor tenant.

2. The apartments are a bad idea for the same reason that apartments are a bad idea in the Standard Building, no parking.   Also, office space on Public Square is still desirable and rare.  All the PS office space is leased-vacancy rates in those buildings is below 10%.

3.  There is almost no class B office space available in the business district anymore.  It is either all off market or converted to apartments.

If parking is a concern for potential downtown residents, they shouldn't live downtown.

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Nearly 30 percent of the CBD's Class B & C office market is vacant. 

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"Save the planet. Move to the city." -- The Downtowner podcast

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11 minutes ago, KJP said:

Nearly 30 percent of the CBD's Class B & C office market is vacant. 

Does that percentage not include buildings set to be converted but not officially converted into residential yet? If so, than is that number truly much lower? Or did you already lower that number because you took that into account?

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10 hours ago, GISguy said:

If parking is a concern for potential downtown residents, they shouldn't live downtown.

Ummm..... I live dowtown, and I'm in outside sales.  I drive to appts all over the state and still want to come home and park my car and walk to everything downtwon has....parking is a concern.  That being said, Tower City has a parking garage attached to it.  

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1 hour ago, mack34 said:

Ummm..... I live dowtown, and I'm in outside sales.  I drive to appts all over the state and still want to come home and park my car and walk to everything downtwon has....parking is a concern.  That being said, Tower City has a parking garage attached to it.  

 

If you try to limit it to people willing to give up independent private mobility, you're not going to have enough people to populate a viable downtown.

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7 minutes ago, E Rocc said:

 

If you try to limit it to people willing to give up independent private mobility, you're not going to have enough people to populate a viable downtown.

 

Increasing numbers of people view using transit, biking and walking as freedom -- from the tyranny of the car. But we're drifting off topic -- again.

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On 5/7/2019 at 1:31 PM, MyPhoneDead said:

Some active construction going on in the large vacant storefront next to Footlocker. No coming soon sign so must be office space.

IMG_20190507_131648.jpg

MVIMG_20190507_131658.jpg

 

Not neccesarily.   Some stores don't like to telegraph their moves because they feel it helps the competition.

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6 hours ago, E Rocc said:

 

Not neccesarily.   Some stores don't like to telegraph their moves because they feel it helps the competition.

One of the cleaners that work in the mall (Take it with a grain of salt I guess), said it will be a space for guest services. 

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Anyone know what’s going on with all the shuffling offices going up in the train station? They’ve put up a new customer service booth only to knock down the old customer service booth only to build what looks to be the exact same booth where it used to be? Not to mention the unused glass booth by the red line turnstiles?!

 

Confuses me every morning...

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Slowly clearing out the mall. One step closer...


"Save the planet. Move to the city." -- The Downtowner podcast

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5 hours ago, MyPhoneDead said:

Honestly hate this plan

 

Same.  I'll never understand the city or its developers.   We have a dying retail space--so we're talking about putting a suburban shopping mall up near the lake front instead of remaking this perfectly good retail space.  

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Tech hub

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Were any of these stores that have closed doing well enough to relocate to one of the many retail spots available throughout downtown... especially on Euclid Ave.?  Its a shame if we are losing all of these permanently ... 

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20 minutes ago, mrclifton88 said:

Were any of these stores that have closed doing well enough to relocate to one of the many retail spots available throughout downtown... especially on Euclid Ave.?  Its a shame if we are losing all of these permanently ... 

 

And what is the city and Downtown Cleveland Alliance doing to keep them?


"Save the planet. Move to the city." -- The Downtowner podcast

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7 minutes ago, KFM44107 said:

Out of curiosity because I honestly have not been keeping up,  what closed stores would have been worth keeping downtown?

Victorias Secret, GNC, Bath and Body Works (leaves this upcoming April), FYE, Lids (For sports memorabilia) just to name some of the top of my head. They all have national name recognition and are all the top brands in their respective categories. 

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9 minutes ago, KFM44107 said:

Out of curiosity because I honestly have not been keeping up,  what closed stores would have been worth keeping downtown?


From the perspective of a downtown resident, all retail loss hurts– we already have so little and so many empty retail spaces. 

It's really bad when the only convenient, useful places to shop downtown are CVS, Heniens and Constantinos. We need retail options. Food, beer and deodorant are great but I'd love to pop into a Target, Marshall's, J Crew, etc. all by walking down the street. Hopefully we can hit that 20,000 people living downtown mark soon so some of those places consider joining downtown.

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6 minutes ago, downtownjoe said:


From the perspective of a downtown resident, all retail loss hurts– we already have so little and so many empty retail spaces. 

It's really bad when the only convenient, useful places to shop downtown are CVS, Heniens and Constantinos. We need retail options. Food, beer and deodorant are great but I'd love to pop into a Target, Marshall's, J Crew, etc. all by walking down the street. Hopefully we can hit that 20,000 people living downtown mark soon so some of those places consider joining downtown.

I honestly think a City Target itself would handle most of the retail void. 

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Uh oh, it's becoming another retail thread.... 😮

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"Save the planet. Move to the city." -- The Downtowner podcast

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18 minutes ago, downtownjoe said:


From the perspective of a downtown resident, all retail loss hurts– we already have so little and so many empty retail spaces. 

It's really bad when the only convenient, useful places to shop downtown are CVS, Heniens and Constantinos. We need retail options. Food, beer and deodorant are great but I'd love to pop into a Target, Marshall's, J Crew, etc. all by walking down the street. Hopefully we can hit that 20,000 people living downtown mark soon so some of those places consider joining downtown.

I'd like a Marshalls as a worker downtown.  It'd be nice to do some shopping during lunch.

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What surprises me about the direction Dan Gilbert seems to be heading. With all of these big events coming downtown (Indians ASG, Cavs ASG, Browns Draft etc.) in back to back years, beefing up the TC retail would be a no brainier, especially with Progressive Field and The Q attached. 

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2 hours ago, KFM44107 said:

I honestly think a City Target itself would handle most of the retail void. 

A good sized City Target would certainly cover a lot of things.  However, these City Targets have a decent to large grocery section; I don't think Heinen's can handle a low cost competition grocer downtown yet.

Edited by Oxford19

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On 5/2/2019 at 7:34 PM, Terdolph said:

I have three answers.

 

1.  No mall can survive without at least one anchor tenant.

2. The apartments are a bad idea for the same reason that apartments are a bad idea in the Standard Building, no parking.   Also, office space on Public Square is still desirable and rare.  All the PS office space is leased-vacancy rates in those buildings is below 10%.

3.  There is almost no class B office space available in the business district anymore.  It is either all off market or converted to apartments.

As to point 3 you are certainly not correct.  My office is in the Superior Building.  It is 50% vacant.  Same owner of the City Club Building, which is also at least 50% vacant.  There is still a good inventory of class B space available.

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6 hours ago, CleCaneFan said:

@sooner, Google it.....😁

You had to go and raise our curiosity again 😅

 

Ari Lewis touches on City Block in the below blog from Crain’s.  Do we really expect Google to have a major stake in Blockland?  

 

Side note, I wish Cleveland had 100 more Ari’s.  Guy brings some real energy.

 

https://www.crainscleveland.com/young-professionals-blog/why-im-bullish-clevelands-tech-sector-and-you-should-be-too

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5 hours ago, OCBB2009 said:

As to point 3 you are certainly not correct.  My office is in the Superior Building.  It is 50% vacant.  Same owner of the City Club Building, which is also at least 50% vacant.  There is still a good inventory of class B space available.

Where the Hell did everybody go?

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6 hours ago, KFM44107 said:

It's my understanding that they're doing a full gut of tenants so that they can start from scratch.

Going to be a real mess when we find out that the tech hub thing is/was a scam.

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I understand that pessimism doesn't die easily after the the decades that Cleveland has gone through. But if you don't think things have changed, then you're probably still looking for evidence of life in places that haven't breathed since the 70s.

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"Save the planet. Move to the city." -- The Downtowner podcast

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