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KJP

Cleveland: Downtown: Tower City / CityBlock Development

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4 hours ago, KJP said:

So I checked with a source who says those massings for CityBlock aren’t intended to represent anything other than potential future work. What you’re seeing has nothing to do with SHW. There have been some conversations about apartments/hotels as part of the riverfront development.

 

To me, that's actually more intriguing than SHW going there because that it offers the potential of a huge SHW HQ+R&D facility PLUS some cool stuff being pondered for the Riverview phase.

YESSS!

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^^ It does offers a really great potential of taking Downtown Cleveland to the next

level!!

 

With a

SHW HQ & R&D

 

CITY BLOCK with perhaps RIVERFRONT APTS

 

LANDMARK TOWER APTS

 

MAY COMPANY APTS

 

NEW RETAIL ALONG ONTARIO and PROSPECT

 

and all to be concentrated in middle of DOWNTOWN!!

 

EDIT:

 

PLUS ADD:

 

75 PUBLIC SQUARE APTS & RETAIL

 

NEW JUSTICE CENTER without COUNTY JAIL (Midtown??)

 

WESTIN DEVELOPMENT ??

 

55 PUBLIC SQUARE APTS & RETAIL ???

 

and in MAYBE some day:

nuCLEus ??????

 

 

Edited by Larry1962
Added more projects to be completed in that area
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So it turns out this riverfront project is much greater in scale than I initially showed in the renderings... there appear to be at least three other buildings by the Courthouse that are part of this as well. Also notice SW's Breen in the bottom left by the courthouse (hopefully soon to close? 🤣)

 

Think about this:

I can't imagine what a great walk it will be someday for someone to take a journey from the Rock Hall and Lakefront Development by FirstEnergy Stadium, past the Science Center, across the Land Bridge, down the Mall/Convention Center, into Public Square, through Tower City, Prospect Park and the new, high-tech  City Block, and finally out, down the sloping hill/park towards the Riverfront. Sounds like the Yellow Brick Road of Downtown Cleveland to me.

 

image.thumb.png.e44744929295070e6deaf9c60b50dbbe.png

Edited by Geowizical
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20 hours ago, punch said:

Those towers make we wonder if Sherwin would like to have a campus on the TC side of the river 🤔

They already do.  If they would just complete their existing bldg., and take over all of the Skylight Tower they would probably have all the space they need.

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1 minute ago, Terdolph said:

They already do.  If they would just complete their existing bldg., and take over all of the Skylight Tower they would probably have all the space they need.

 

Not even close. They're about 700,000-800,000 sf short. They occupy 50K sf of Skylight which totals only 340K and is almost fully leased out. And their existing office and R&D buildings are outdated.

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"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities."-Voltaire

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23 minutes ago, Geowizical said:

So it turns out this riverfront project is much greater in scale than I initially showed in the renderings... there appear to be at least three other buildings by the Courthouse that are part of this as well. Also notice SW's Breen in the bottom left by the courthouse (hopefully soon to close? 🤣)

 

Think about this:

I can't imagine what a great walk it will be someday for someone to take a journey from the Rock Hall and Lakefront Development by FirstEnergy Stadium, past the Science Center, across the Land Bridge, down the Mall/Convention Center, into Public Square, through Tower City, Prospect Park and the new, high-tech  City Block, and finally out, down the sloping hill/park towards the Riverfront. Sounds like the Yellow Brick Road of Downtown Cleveland to me.

 

image.thumb.png.e44744929295070e6deaf9c60b50dbbe.png

Are you referencing the proposed park and trail overlooking the Cuyahoga that borders Ontario to the west?  Would love to see that built as it was proposed as it would compliment any type of development like this very nicely.  Apologies I’m unable to find the image of it at this time.

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20 hours ago, AsDustinFoxWouldSay said:

Don't hold your breath

Gotta vote you down again. You never contribute anything positive to any conversation you insert yourself into. Ever. I can’t be the only one annoyed with this

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30 minutes ago, bumsquare said:

 

I didn't understand what he was recommending. I understood the part about creating more college-educated people coming out of the Cleveland school system. And he notes that without the jobs demand for college-educated young people, they leave. He says Blockland isn't what's needed to keep them here, but like so many others who claim to know what ISN'T the answer, they don't tell us what they think IS the answer.

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"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities."-Voltaire

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1 minute ago, KJP said:

 

I didn't understand what he was recommending. I understood the part about creating more college-educated people coming out of the Cleveland school system. And he notes that without the jobs demand for college-educated young people, they leave. He says Blockland isn't what's needed to keep them here, but like so many others who claim to know what ISN'T the answer, they don't tell us what they think IS the answer.

Right - he talked a little about supply, then said "You also need demand" and then the piece just trailed off into nothing.

 

Also, we tend to ascribe the mantle of "next big thing" to projects simply because they are big.  In the case of things like the Med Mart and the Casino, which require John Q. Public's assent at the ballot box in one way or another, unfortunately, those in favor of the project tend to hype these things up as major catalysts when the reality is more along the lines of "this is a good idea. It's a small piece of a much larger puzzle, but we should do it."   But I haven't heard much about this Tower City project being treated as much more than when the writer here says it is - a real estate project. It will transform a major hub of the city from its current use to something else, so if course it's getting some "big" attention. But beyond that, I'm not sure this piece is saying much.

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I think he’s maybe letting his links do a lot of the work for him. The link to the CityBlock article is mildly illuminating but the link to the paper about human capital is more interesting. 
 

As a side note, if you’d like to get bummed out about Bernie Moreno and his role in CityBlock go read his twitter feed. Yikes!

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In the spirit of Throwback Thursday that @MayDay has inspired. This is Forest City's plan for a convention center at Tower City. For some reason, a proposed convention center hotel was circled. This is from 2005.......

ConvCenter-TowerCity2.jpg

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"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities."-Voltaire

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4 minutes ago, KJP said:

In the spirit of Throwback Thursday that @MayDay has inspired. This is Forest City's plan for a convention center at Tower City. For some reason, a proposed convention center hotel was circled. This is from 2005.......

ConvCenter-TowerCity2.jpg

Omg, look at those second empire-inspired townhomes on Scranton 😍😍😍

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BTW, I hope that proposed pedestrian bridge was going to be a lift bridge, because there's no way the big freighters could fit under that!

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"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities."-Voltaire

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That would have been so much better.  Actually, anything else would have been better... our current convention center setup is a terrible design/plan.

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3 minutes ago, NR said:

That would have been so much better.  Actually, anything else would have been better... our current convention center setup is a terrible design/plan.

They destroyed the Mall too. 

Edited by freefourur
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44 minutes ago, NR said:

That would have been so much better.  Actually, anything else would have been better... our current convention center setup is a terrible design/plan.

 

41 minutes ago, freefourur said:

They destroyed the Mall too. 

If I recall correctly from way back then there was a good amount of opposition to the TC site on this board.  I think a lot of it had to do with the design and the feeling that this huge edifice was going to loom over the river.

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4 hours ago, Htsguy said:

 

If I recall correctly from way back then there was a good amount of opposition to the TC site on this board.  I think a lot of it had to do with the design and the feeling that this huge edifice was going to loom over the river.

This is correct. Look at the early pages of the CC thread and there is a ton of opposition to the riverfront proposal; a lot of it also had to do with anti-Forest City sentiment and the perception that they were jerking the city around and trying to use political clout to get their way.

 

In retrospect I do find what was done to Mall B to be a mild disaster in terms of the malls' integrity and visual appeal. 

Edited by PittsburgoDelendaEst
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10 hours ago, KJP said:

In the spirit of Throwback Thursday that @MayDay has inspired. This is Forest City's plan for a convention center at Tower City. For some reason, a proposed convention center hotel was circled. This is from 2005.......

ConvCenter-TowerCity2.jpg

Love the design and the new Hilton would have been so much more impactful in this location.  I'm not a big fan of the current location and its transformation of the Mall.

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^I’m starting to come around to a new perspective. The current CC may not have the greatest layout, but it’s an incredible use of real estate. I’m thinking of LA and Philly and Jacob Javitz and all these monstrosities that take up 15 blocks. I’ve had several friends come into town and remark that our CC is nice because it’s not hulking. 
 

The current Hilton feels stranded right now because it’s disconnected from neighborhoods—but imagine it as a beautiful halfway point to grab a drink once the lakefront is a) built and b) connected through a land bridge. 
 

Couple that with a new S-W site on the River integrated well with a City Block and “Solstice Stairs” from TC down to the riverfront. 
 

Between the riverfront steps, TC avenue, public square, malls, land bridge, and lakefront green by the RRHOF, we have a welcome mat connecting the Lake to the River. 
 

Link that up with a courthouse tower, mixed use developments along the rest of the parking lot district, and you get 👌

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Add San Francisco, New Orleans and Orlando, they're all behemoths. For what it is, placing the CCC mostly underground was a very wise use of land, without the need to make an architectural statement.  I had a lot of great times and fond memories from the Hanna Fountains however, and miss that aspect of the Mall.

Edited by Frmr CLEder
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1 hour ago, audidave said:

There is no way a stadium could be squeezed into the pit.  

Also off topic here-ish, i saw that google has a massive project called ‘Operation Nightingale’ that is picking up and analyzing most everyone’s medical data in AI. Perhaps they want to locate that group in Cleveland or maybe many are already here? They said it is currently 150 employees. But it sounds like it could expand rapidly. 

 

That's sounds like a very potential addition to CityBlock. It's digital, so it fits in with CityBlock's original concept and it healthcare so it leverages off Cleveland's largest employment base. But I don't have any insights about it. But remember that Google Healthcare was supposed to come to Uptown about 5-6 years ago. So Google has had their eyes on Cleveland for a while, especially from a healthcare-related perspective.

 

BTW, @MayDay or @X -- can this thread be renamed as "Cleveland: Tower City/City Block developments"?

 

 

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"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities."-Voltaire

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Architect Tom Vecchione on Reality TV Stardom, 30 Years at Gensler and Moving to Vocon

 

 

“Since starting at Vocon in September, Vecchione has helped spearhead the master-planning effort for a 350,000-square-foot former train station in Downtown Cleveland called Tower City Center from his perch in the New York office. The $110 million renovation will include new corporate office space, coworking areas, cafes and a new public plaza, in addition to Tower City’s existing shopping complex and light rail station. Bedrock Detroit, Dan Gilbert’s real estate company, purchased the property in 2016 and is funding much of the renovation. 

Vecchione, who has family in Cleveland, sees the development as an opportunity to help reshape the city’s sleepy downtown. 

“Cleveland has an amazing evolution right now of young people moving downtown,” he explained. “It’s got tons of apartments, and it’s turning into a bit of a lifestyle center. But we gotta keep the jobs there and we gotta keep the businesses there to turn it from an eight-hour city into a 15-hour city.” 

 

https://commercialobserver.com/2019/11/tom-vecchione-architect-gensler-vocon/

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One of the under construction storefronts we all poked our heads up to at one point or another was for Bedrocks customer offices, it's probably been done a while but first time I noticed

IMG_20191121_131359459.jpg

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There was movement in the old Victoria Secret space this evening. The black covering was gone—not sure if they’re just adding additional Cleveland Water marketing mumbo jumbo or if they’re actually doing something, but I’ll see if there’s anymore to report tomorrow morning. 

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4 hours ago, Clevecane said:

There was movement in the old Victoria Secret space this evening. The black covering was gone—not sure if they’re just adding additional Cleveland Water marketing mumbo jumbo or if they’re actually doing something, but I’ll see if there’s anymore to report tomorrow morning. 

The Winterfest "Kids' Village" is going to be in there this weekend.

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Not sure if this is the right spot to post, but apparently Salesforce will be participating in the Blockland conference this year. Does anyone know if they participated in any previous year? 

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45 minutes ago, LlamaLawyer said:

Not sure if this is the right spot to post, but apparently Salesforce will be participating in the Blockland conference this year. Does anyone know if they participated in any previous year? 

I’m gonna hope that they’re @KJP‘s mega project.

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6 minutes ago, marty15 said:

I’m gonna hope that they’re @KJP‘s mega project.

 

Not Salesforce.


"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities."-Voltaire

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Salesforce just finished an "iconic" hq - should be enough to house them all without going to another city

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2 hours ago, KJP said:

 

Not Salesforce.


Correct sector? I notice Google, IBM, Verizon, and Visa (CardinalCommerce) are also on the speaker list. 

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1 hour ago, Clevecane said:


Correct sector? I notice Google, IBM, Verizon, and Visa (CardinalCommerce) are also on the speaker list. 

 

No

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"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities."-Voltaire

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11 hours ago, bjk said:

Salesforce just finished an "iconic" hq - should be enough to house them all without going to another city

Doesn't Salesforce also have a big presence in Indy?

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2 hours ago, Frmr CLEder said:

Doesn't Salesforce also have a big presence in Indy?

 

Yes from their purchase of ExactTarget 5 or so years ago.

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