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Cleveland: Downtown: Tower City / CityBlock Development

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1 minute ago, MyTwoSense said:

Do you remember when store fronts were in many of these building.  The last picture, with the UPS truck, that area housed my favorite store, Barney's.  There is a great deal off street frontage that can be retail on Prospect, Huron, W 2/3 street.

 

In the future, this would enable connected and continued retail going west on West 6 and East on Prospect.  This would deepen and enrich the connections that are currently in place making downtown more attractive to workers/employee, residents and visitors/tourist.

I don't I only remember Tower City interior as the retail area. What stores were in the storefronts of the second picture? I agree about the connection and that is why I love the choice to move stores to Prospect, it definitely bridges a gap from the WHD and East 4th Street. Combine that with the rumored streetscape re-do of this area of Prospect and we have a winner. I know there are multiple empty storefronts lining the complex but since Prospect was only mentioned in KJP's story (for now at least) I wasn't to sure about the chances of those getting filled. 

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4 minutes ago, MyPhoneDead said:

One thing I will give the people behind this project is they are VERY ambitious. This type of project is definitely as risk and creating it in such a large space as Tower City to start is very gutsy but commendable. If you are going to do an ambitious project like this though you go hard or go home and they are definitely going hard. One thing I wish Cleveland did more often was I wish they "went for it all" with more of their projects, I wish their projects were things that got people outside of this board talking but they end up more conservative (The PHS Chandelier). The moniker of "world's largest __________" definitely is a headline grabber and will definitely catch peoples attention and draw interest. Combined with the type of space this project offers and its location as well as transit access it should be a home run. 

Cleveland was built on ingenuity.  Actually, due to economic forces and forces beyond our control, we've had to take a more conservative approach in development compared to other cities.  I would rather the measured and conservative approach than have empty towers such as in cities like Miami, Atlanta, Dallas,Phoenix, etc.

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26 minutes ago, MyPhoneDead said:

So first, great to hear there will be SOME retail presence at Tower city. I believe making Prospect avenue the target was a brilliant idea, those storefronts have always been underutilized (I've never seen them occupied, if they have idk by who) as well as the street itself. 

 

Second, in the story you said upstairs (Public Square level) would maintain retail inside of Tower City, but you named stores that are downstairs, would they possibly shift them? Also (I know it's speculation) but do you think T-Mobile stays as it's a technology company that recently remodeled their space. 

 

 

I was only speculating as to what retailers would located between the rapid station and Public Square portico to capitalize off the pedestrian traffic. I suspect that a couple of other retailers will remain at Tower City but where they will locate and what they will be,  I have no idea.


"The boss rolls up in a new Lamborghini and tells his staff 'The greatest part about America is that hard work breeds wealth. So if you work hard and dedicate yourself tirelessly to the task at hand, I can get another new Lamborghini next year.'” -- Overheard in a Cleveland bar.

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5 minutes ago, MyPhoneDead said:

I don't I only remember Tower City interior as the retail area. What stores were in the storefronts of the second picture? I agree about the connection and that is why I love the choice to move stores to Prospect, it definitely bridges a gap from the WHD and East 4th Street. Combine that with the rumored streetscape re-do of this area of Prospect and we have a winner. I know there are multiple empty storefronts lining the complex but since Prospect was only mentioned in KJP's story (for now at least) I wasn't to sure about the chances of those getting filled. 

If you dont mind me asking, how old are you?  When TC was remodeled, there were stores that internal and external entries.  You could enter Joan and David on Prospect or Internally.  You could enter Higbee's from a number of points.  You could enter Barney's or Banana Republic from external locations.  

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1 minute ago, MyTwoSense said:

If you dont mind me asking, how old are you?  When TC was remodeled, there were stores that internal and external entries.  You could enter Joan and David on Prospect or Internally.  You could enter Higbee's from a number of points.  You could enter Barney's or Banana Republic from external locations.  

26, my memories of Tower City start post 2001 so after Dillards, I didn't know it was even called the Avenue until I worked there in 2011.

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1 minute ago, MyPhoneDead said:

26, my memories of Tower City start post 2001 so after Dillards, I didn't know it was even called the Avenue until I worked there in 2011.

You're like my older Nephew and Niece.  They don't remember Tower City pre 2000.  They only remember Higbee's being 5 floors and whenever they see "A Christmas story" they are amazed at what a vibrant store Higbee's once was.

 

They  remember Warner Bros Studio Store, Gymboree, the GAP and a few other stores.

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9 hours ago, MyTwoSense said:

You're like my older Nephew and Niece.  They don't remember Tower City pre 2000.  They only remember Higbee's being 5 floors and whenever they see "A Christmas story" they are amazed at what a vibrant store Higbee's once was.

 

They  remember Warner Bros Studio Store, Gymboree, the GAP and a few other stores.

That's EXACTLY what I remember 😂 I think that era of Tower City could do pretty decent in today's downtown climate. 

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12 hours ago, MyPhoneDead said:

That's EXACTLY what I remember 😂 I think that era of Tower City could do pretty decent in today's downtown climate. 

 

Yeah, you missed how extravagant the opening was, lol.  Unfortunately, Cleveland's market wasn't conducive to some of the store's that lined it's floors at that time IMO.  When you add in cultural changes, closed in malls aren't what most American's focus on today.

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Myphonedead - If I recall correctly, the second picture had two stores.   On the left was the street entrance to Joan & David shoes (which was also accessible in the mall).   On the right was County Road, which was kind of like a Australian Banana Republic, but was only accessible from the street.  Joan & David went into bankruptcy in 2000, and Country Road exited the American market about the same time.

 

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So...sorry to sound like an armchair developer, but I wonder why this couldn't be done at the Post Office Plaza.  That building is about the same size and the Tower City public space doesn't have to be hacked apart for it.  Aside from K&D owning it instead of Bedrock--um, I think I answered my own question.

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Good question. Post office plaza is 477,000 square feet and half vacant. The Avenue is 366,000 square feet and half vacant. 


"The boss rolls up in a new Lamborghini and tells his staff 'The greatest part about America is that hard work breeds wealth. So if you work hard and dedicate yourself tirelessly to the task at hand, I can get another new Lamborghini next year.'” -- Overheard in a Cleveland bar.

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They want a dynamic, exciting space. And from @KJP‘s scoop, Station F being their inspiration for a unique setting, regular, tucked away office space isn’t in the cards for this venture. 

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On 6/28/2019 at 4:51 PM, KJP said:

Tower+City-061319-2-CROP-s.jpg

 

FRIDAY, JUNE 28, 2019

City Block at Tower City, announcement Monday; sneak peak

 

On Monday, July 1, BlockLand Cleveland will announce that The Avenue at Tower City Center is the group's chosen site for its technology hub called City Block. The hub, as proposed, would be the world's largest technology incubator under one roof.

 

Bernie Moreno, founder and leader of BlockLand Cleveland, a volunteer effort, confirmed last week in a personal message via Twitter that the project would be announced at 4 p.m. Monday at the group's next regular meeting. The meeting will be held on the second floor of the former Plain Dealer building, 1801 Superior Ave.

 

MORE:

https://neo-trans.blogspot.com/2019/06/city-block-at-tower-city-announcement.html

 

Anyone know when this announcement will be?

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You can lead a horse to water....

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"The boss rolls up in a new Lamborghini and tells his staff 'The greatest part about America is that hard work breeds wealth. So if you work hard and dedicate yourself tirelessly to the task at hand, I can get another new Lamborghini next year.'” -- Overheard in a Cleveland bar.

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https://www.clevescene.com/scene-and-heard/archives/2019/07/01/city-block-blockland-tech-hub-will-open-in-tower-city-in-agreement-with-bedrock-detroit

 

'City Block,' Blockland Tech Hub, Will Open in Tower City in Agreement with Bedrock Detroit

Posted By Sam Allard on Mon, Jul 1, 2019 at 2:22 pm

 

Local car dealer turned tech entrepreneur Bernie Moreno has announced that "City Block," the Blockland tech hub conceived to attract and grow start-up companies in Cleveland, will open at Tower City as early as next year. 

The development project will be a joint effort between Blockland and Bedrock Detroit, the Dan Gilbert real estate company that owns and operates The Avenue Shops at Tower City. 

Bedrock Chairman Jim Ketai released a statement saying that his company, which has studied multiple ways to adapt the depleted Tower City mall since it acquired the property in 2016, has "entered into negotiations" with the Blockland community. 
 

 

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Edited by dave2017
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On 3/3/2019 at 10:29 PM, marty15 said:

Google is behind the new Tower City makeover. And look for that section of Prospect Ave. to be turned to pedestrian only. 

Now we wait for the meat 🍖 

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https://www.cleveland.com/news/2019/07/whats-next-for-tower-city-mall-city-block-proposed-tech-hub-confirmed.html

 

It’s a $110 million commitment and not all the money is raised yet, so Blockland volunteers will need to secure sponsors, equity partners, tenants and — hopefully — a large tech company to anchor the space, founder Bernie Moreno said in a phone interview.

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6 minutes ago, marty15 said:

Now we wait for the meat 🍖 

If Google is really behind it why does Moreno seem to indicate otherwise?

 

It’s a $110 million commitment and not all the money is raised yet, so Blockland volunteers will need to secure sponsors, equity partners, tenants and — hopefully — a large tech company to anchor the space, founder Bernie Moreno said in a phone interview. 

 

Though the deal is set, the specifics are not. The renovation will be done in phases, but those are not yet defined. There have been conversations with many potential tenants, Moreno says, but none are locked up yet. His own blockchain company, Ownum, will be one of the first to move in.

 

Edit: RMB beat me too it. 

Edited by cle_guy90

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My source has been proven correct on everything else revealed thus far, 4 months ago mind you. Patience. 

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1 minute ago, marty15 said:

My source has been proven correct on everything else revealed thus far, 4 months ago mind you. Patience. 

 

I believe in Marty's source 😍

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2 hours ago, PaxtonMarley said:

I know that Prospect has always been Tower City's back alley, but between that and shutting down Superior to E-W traffic, it's gonna be ugly. 

 

They can always build phase II of the casino and put another road paralleling Huron... after all, Sherwin Williams is moving imminently, right @KJP? 😬

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4 hours ago, marty15 said:

My source has been proven correct on everything else revealed thus far, 4 months ago mind you. Patience. 

 

 

Not saying you you aren’t correct, but I’ve been close to this project for 8 months now, and have yet to hear “google” in any capacity. 

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12 hours ago, superior said:

 

Yeah, you missed how extravagant the opening was, lol.  Unfortunately, Cleveland's market wasn't conducive to some of the store's that lined it's floors at that time IMO.  When you add in cultural changes, closed in malls aren't what most American's focus on today.

Actually that is wrong.  As discussed earlier in this thread and the retail thread (for newer forumers), Issues were

FC's lack of Mall management.

Daytime/weekend majority traffic

Many stores, had their own financial issues.  Barney's, LV, Banana Republic, Liz Claiborne, Gucci, Warner Bros., Structure and the Gap Inc (Brands).  Many were closing stores all over like Barney's and Gucci.

 

Today, there are significantly more things to do downtown, more hotels, and more residents that can support upscale retailers.

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50 minutes ago, Klingaling87 said:

 

 

Not saying you you aren’t correct, but I’ve been close to this project for 8 months now, and have yet to hear “google” in any capacity. 

I've heard rumblings of Google "medical".  I dropped a bread crumb earlier.  However, one of their "X" divisions could be in play here.

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4 hours ago, PaxtonMarley said:

I know that Prospect has always been Tower City's back alley, but between that and shutting down Superior to E-W traffic, it's gonna be ugly. 

With all the other parallel  streets in Cleveland, Closing this stretch of Prospect isn't going to be an issue.  Clevelanders have it way to easy as compared to other cities when traveling into/out of downtown.  Due to the number of avenues in our city, we don't really have a bad commute and a very short evening "rush" hour compared to other cities.

 

Anyone, who, right of the bat, thinks this is a negative, plays right into the Cleveland self saboteur syndrome I've often spoken of.  

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4 hours ago, PaxtonMarley said:

I know that Prospect has always been Tower City's back alley, but between that and shutting down Superior to E-W traffic, it's gonna be ugly. 

 

There is no reason Huron, which is being rehabilitated as we speak, wouldn’t be able to handle the additional traffic from Prospect.

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1 hour ago, Klingaling87 said:

 

 

Not saying you you aren’t correct, but I’ve been close to this project for 8 months now, and have yet to hear “google” in any capacity. 

I suppose there’s no absolutes in anything. I just have no reason to believe otherwise, considering my source. 

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2 hours ago, Clevecane said:

 

They can always build phase II of the casino and put another road paralleling Huron... after all, Sherwin Williams is moving imminently, right @KJP? 😬

 

If you consider 3+ years "imminent," yes.

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"The boss rolls up in a new Lamborghini and tells his staff 'The greatest part about America is that hard work breeds wealth. So if you work hard and dedicate yourself tirelessly to the task at hand, I can get another new Lamborghini next year.'” -- Overheard in a Cleveland bar.

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6 hours ago, MyTwoSense said:

Actually that is wrong.  As discussed earlier in this thread and the retail thread (for newer forumers), Issues were

FC's lack of Mall management.

Daytime/weekend majority traffic

Many stores, had their own financial issues.  Barney's, LV, Banana Republic, Liz Claiborne, Gucci, Warner Bros., Structure and the Gap Inc (Brands).  Many were closing stores all over like Barney's and Gucci.

 

Today, there are significantly more things to do downtown, more hotels, and more residents that can support upscale retailers.

 

Not completely.  You've help make some of my points.  Yes, todays market is more sustainable for upscale retailers.  In 1990, the downtown housing market wasn't strong.  Once Tower City opened, you began to see a downturn in storefronts along Euclid Ave.  This factor happened in a lot of markets that had a small downtown population.  The focus was to bring people within city cores for shopping.  The problem came in when people found other options.  Small market downtown malls usually suffered because of the lack of a sustained population.

 

It is a KNOWN fact that closed in malls are becoming extinct.  Think about it, the Cleveland area alone has lost almost all it's malls (Tower City, Galleria, Euclid Square, Shaker, Randall Park, etc.).  Most people either buy online or prefer to go to open air shopping centers today.

 

Banana Republic, Structure and the Gap had sustainability IMO over the years.  Gucci, Versace and Fendi was a hard sell for the Cleveland market during that timeframe.  Even the Disney store moved out rather quickly.  This is one of the main points why the downtown population has to reach 20,000+.  Cleveland is a hard sell for most high end retailers.  I can only imagine the frustration some of the local developers have during their pitches to some of these businesses. 

 

As an example, I currently live about an hour away from Frankfurt Germany.  None of these retailers have an issue with traffic flow in and out of their establishments.  None have sales issues either.  Tesla even has a location in downtown Frankfurt.  Gucci isn't leaving the New York, Chicago or LA markets no matter how many stores they close (I know Cleveland doesn't compare to them, but...).  When I go to some cities you will see that they will only allow a certain amount of customers into the establishment at a time.  People literally stand in line waiting to get in (like it's a club, lol).  The one thing they ALL have in common, they are in an open air shopping center or have a storefront.

 

Bottom line, no retailer will leave a market that has proven to be financially beneficial to them.  Cleveland's slowly getting there and I can't wait.

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13 hours ago, Klingaling87 said:

 

 

Not saying you you aren’t correct, but I’ve been close to this project for 8 months now, and have yet to hear “google” in any capacity. 

 

Cmon Klingaling, you know you "googled' blockchain at some point

Edited by Taller_is_better
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16 hours ago, MyTwoSense said:

With all the other parallel  streets in Cleveland, Closing this stretch of Prospect isn't going to be an issue.  Clevelanders have it way to easy as compared to other cities when traveling into/out of downtown.  Due to the number of avenues in our city, we don't really have a bad commute and a very short evening "rush" hour compared to other cities.

 

Anyone, who, right of the bat, thinks this is a negative, plays right into the Cleveland self saboteur syndrome I've often spoken of.  

 

To clear the record, this wasn't what I thought "right off the bat."  I was chiming in response to another commenter who aptly noticed the potential closure of Prospect, which is used by several RTA routes and a significant feeder to the Veterans Memorial Bridge.  Second, if you read my other comments, actually my primary concern was that a popular public/gathering space could in essence be privatized.

 

But to your larger point about sabotaging Cleveland, no one has to jump head first into every single development initiative or be seduced by every Lyle Lanley to have strong civic pride.

Edited by PaxtonMarley
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