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"You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers

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While this is an actual place in Ohio, it appropriately foreshadows the fate of The American Mall in general.

 

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Nothing more American

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One store survives, but is walled off from the rest of the mall

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WHY ARE WE SHOUTING. THIS IS SUCH AN AWESOME ABANDONMENT.

 

Although I hate malls....This is not necessarily all good because many of these areas are gateways into cities....and I don't want to see them end up looking like vandal magnets.  I am sure that somewhere just 10 minutes from this place, another new sprawl mall was built. This is exactly the scene I hate to envision Ohio looking like because of all the cannibalizing sprawl. (sprawl killing sprawl, killing more sprawl...sprawl some more) You really cannot farm this sort of area again, as all the top soil is gone...and what lies beneath is contaminated from asphalt anyway. This is a poster child example of PPP... 'piss poor planning'  One of the best things Ohio can do to preserve what remains in commercial areas like this...and downtowns, is to simply quit the building of new sprawl areas which we do not need, and focus on growth from within...not outward. I know that philosophy, however, slaughters a sacred cow amongst the short sighted and chamber driven folks, though. There answer is always.... "this growth will save us" I believe growth beyond maturity is cancer, as we witness in the photos. There is a website that features dead malls...  www.deadmalls.com  Check that one out and see all the malls. Maybe future uses for such structures can be indoor cities....with residences too, besides just retail. Please...No more flea markets. Is this near/in Toledo somewhere? I wonder where all the stores went? To a new mall in a third and fourth ring of sprawl, I wonder...

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WHY ARE WE SHOUTING. THIS IS SUCH AN AWESOME ABANDONMENT.

 

Although I hate malls....This is not necessarily all good because many of these areas are gateways into cities....and I don't want to see them end up looking like vandal magnets.   I am sure that somewhere just 10 minutes from this place, another new sprawl mall was built. This is exactly the scene I hate to envision Ohio looking like because of all the cannibalizing sprawl. (sprawl killing sprawl, killing more sprawl...sprawl some more) You really cannot farm this sort of area again, as all the top soil is gone...and what lies beneath is contaminated from asphalt anyway. This is a poster child example of PPP... 'piss poor planning' One of the best things Ohio can do to preserve what remains in commercial areas like this...and downtowns, is to simply quit the building of new sprawl areas which we do not need, and focus on growth from within...not outward. I know that philosophy, however, slaughters a sacred cow amongst the short sighted and chamber driven folks, though. There answer is always.... "this growth will save us" I believe growth beyond maturity is cancer, as we witness in the photos. There is a website that features dead malls...   www.deadmalls.com Check that one out and see all the malls. Maybe future uses for such structures can be indoor cities....with residences too, besides just retail. Please...No more flea markets. Is this near/in Toledo somewhere?

 

I hope you are kidding about the soil being contaminated from the asphalt, and all the top soils being gone.

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I hope you are kidding about the soil being contaminated from the asphalt, and all the top soils being gone.

 

I don't know about the contamination, but when asphalt is laid, a bed of gravel is first put down because you don't asphalt right on top of dirt (frost heaves, etc.) So that top layer of dirt is usually bulldozed away in order to create a perfectly flat surface for the gravel.

 

So, yeah, the ground has been altered in a negative way underneath any structure or parking lot from the act of grading the lot.

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WHY ARE WE SHOUTING. THIS IS SUCH AN AWESOME ABANDONMENT.

 

Although I hate malls....This is not necessarily all good because many of these areas are gateways into cities....and I don't want to see them end up looking like vandal magnets.  I am sure that somewhere just 10 minutes from this place, another new sprawl mall was built. This is exactly the scene I hate to envision Ohio looking like because of all the cannibalizing sprawl. (sprawl killing sprawl, killing more sprawl...sprawl some more) You really cannot farm this sort of area again, as all the top soil is gone...and what lies beneath is contaminated from asphalt anyway. This is a poster child example of PPP... 'piss poor planning'  One of the best things Ohio can do to preserve what remains in commercial areas like this...and downtowns, is to simply quit the building of new sprawl areas which we do not need, and focus on growth from within...not outward. I know that philosophy, however, slaughters a sacred cow amongst the short sighted and chamber driven folks, though. There answer is always.... "this growth will save us" I believe growth beyond maturity is cancer, as we witness in the photos. There is a website that features dead malls...  www.deadmalls.com  Check that one out and see all the malls. Maybe future uses for such structures can be indoor cities....with residences too, besides just retail. Please...No more flea markets. Is this near/in Toledo somewhere?

 

I hope you are kidding about the soil being contaminated from the asphalt, and all the top soils being gone.

 

 

No! Why would I be kidding?.. The topsoil in such places IS mostly gone because when places like these are developed...it is scraped away and the soil under that does get affected by chemicals that leach from asphalt. Most of the beneficial nutrients and organisms are within the first 6 to 12 inches.

 

On the other hand...Due to erosion alone, a very large percentage of topsoil gets washed away each year. I think the average was about some 70% of the original topsoil in this country is gone, hence why your foods are devoid of most trace minerals/nutrients. All that is replaced in typical farming is phosphorous and nitrogen....just enough to make the food 'look good' and last on the shelf and have a high yield. But the nutrition content is slack/crippled. Most food these days is produced for quantity, not nutrition content. It takes between 100 to 500 years for nature to produce one inch of topsoil, so you explain to me how such can function when covered in pavement? Topsil is precious... limited

 

Here, see why:

 

http://www.vivausa.org/activistresources/guides/planetonaplate1.htm

 

http://www.globalchange.umich.edu/globalchange2/current/lectures/land_deg/land_deg.html

 

 

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Is this near/in Toledo somewhere? I wonder where all the stores went? To a new mall in a third and fourth ring of sprawl, I wonder...

 

No, not close to Toledo at all. It's at least seventy miles away from Toledo in metro Lima. It may actually be closer to Dayton or Fort Wayne.

 

And I'd assume a city the size of Lima only has one ring of sprawl...at least I'd hope that's all there is. I don't know, I've never ventured into any Lima suburbs. Considering the economic destruction of Lima that's been happening for decades, I doubt there's anything fueling newer sprawl down there. I don't see where the money would be coming from.

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^Andersons is in Columbus too. Andersons is mainly Toledo (headquartered in Maumee) and Columbus markets, with that random outlier in Lima (and I think it was the only viable store in the mall).

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There's a classification level for malls, and I can't remember how it goes.  But there is one particular class of small indoor malls like this that all seem to be doomed.  I've seen plenty more like this. 

 

Although I hate what malls have done to downtowns, I can't justify their closures either.  It just seems like more waste on top of the pile.  I just read that the plans are to demolish the unused portions.

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Urban farmers have removed homes and developed produce farms within the city of Cleveland. 

 

It seems such a shame to waste the topsoil in the first place, though

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Old urban houses were in neighborhoods where they didn't scrape a thick layer off the top to lay out a 20 acre parking lot. Soil in those instances is in many parts/ways much in tact--a whole different ballgame than large scale mall-type developments. An urban garden has a much better chance on such a property.

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Old urban houses were in neighborhoods where they didn't scrape a thick layer off the top to lay out a 20 acre parking lot. Soil in those instances is in many parts/ways much in tact--a whole different ballgame than large scale mall-type developments. An urban garden has a much better chance on such a property.

 

Nothing can be built on topsoil per LRFD structural design requirements.  Topsiol is only good for planting gardens or flowers and can not be built on.  No matter what is built, topsoil has to be removed as it caried a maximum dry density of roughly 80 pcf at an optimum moisture content of 55%.  Organic Contents of topsoil tend to get above 10% per the Loss on Ignition.  Actually, sites that have already been built on are easier (structurally) to build on again becasue the site is what we call preloaded.  I have actually designed sites that have questionable virgin soils to be preloaded prior to construction.  I am a Structural Engineer that specializes in foundation design for commercial and Industrial buildings along with pavement design. 

 

My main point, topsoil is good for nothing unless you want to plant flowers.  In fact, sites with alot of topsoil (greater than 12" thick) are a nightmare.

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^ Good for nothing? What in the world are you talking about?  :? From a construction perspective, you are speaking..... I am speaking from a totally different one... Growing...and how such properties like this mall site become something that really cannot be reverted back to such uses without the topsoils. That was my point, that's all. You are speaking from an engineering perspective, I am speaking from an ecological one...two very different ball games.  Topsoil is therefore essential in a more organic and nutrient rich growing of food. You do eat, I assume?

 

The characteristics and properties you describe about the soil is what makes it so rich...and has our region with amongst the richest growing soils in the world...and we're covering them up with parking lots. Now there is a useful resource...

 

I wish it were, if it isn't already, that engineering students be required to also pass a rigorous course in ecology and perhaps something relating to sustainable agriculture practices. Then they wouldn't be thinking something like topsoil is useless....or that we can do the same thing to a riverbank that a riparian zone does, with concrete banks.

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The second soil horizon on my lot is not much use for growing.  In fact, the Lake County soil survey describes my soil as "an outwash plain, useful for a sand and gravel quarry".  At just a few inches below the surface, the sod and topsoil ends and the subsoil is just yellow sand.

 

However, I made the best of it.  I added material to bring the organic content up from 6.7% to 6.9%.  The proof of it is that is that I grew a cauliflower as big as my head.  And that's saying a lot.

 

In Cuba, they have developed close-in farms to eliminate the energy cost of transporting produce from the farms to the cities.  They certainly had to redevelop urban sites.  I expect that they pulled  up pavement.  Pictures and video that I have watched show farmers growing right up to the side of an existing building. 

 

Cuba's ultimate challenge was that they lost their petroleum subsidy from the Soviet Union and had to develop organic, low energy, "closed cycle" farming.  They were a hungry and underfed country in the 1990s.  By now, they have been able to feed their people much better.

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^ Good for nothing? What in the world are you talking about?   :? From a construction perspective, you are speaking..... I am speaking from a totally different one... Growing...and how such properties like this mall site become something that really cannot be reverted back to such uses without the topsoils. That was my point, that's all. You are speaking from an engineering perspective, I am speaking from an ecological one...two very different ball games. Topsoil is therefore essential in a more organic and nutrient rich growing of food. You do eat, I assume?

 

The characteristics and properties you describe about the soil is what makes it so rich...and has our region with amongst the richest growing soils in the world...and we're covering them up with parking lots. Now there is a useful resource...

 

I wish it were, if it isn't already, that engineering students be required to also pass a rigorous course in ecology and perhaps something relating to sustainable agriculture practices. Then they wouldn't be thinking something like topsoil is useless....or that we can do the same thing to a riverbank that a riparian zone does, with concrete banks.

 

Well, when I think of a shuttered mall, I don't look at a farm as our first step toward a redevelopment initiative for the property.  I have worked on several mall redevelopments that have gone to schools, apartments, and office suites for lease.  To tear the mall down to plant produce to me is very non-cost effective, and would probably yield the lowest return.  Correct me if I am wrong, but what you are saying the mall never should have been built in the first place, and they should have put a farm there. 

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Ummm.

 

Well, Etheostoma is saying that now that there is a mall there, the site can no longer be used for farming.  I think that is quite obvious, so why is he complaining about it. 

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Sorry, I didn't want to pull this way off topic people.... But....My original...'from the beginning' point, when someone praised the abandonment.... was that it is not necessarily a good thing to see these abandonments due to many similar areas being gateways into cities and the visual/economic negative implications associated, the idea of new sprawl cannibalizing old sprawl, etc.----and an extra point that it could not even be reverted back to farming, if nothing else. All over the state, I don't exactly see a line forming for new occupancy of these properties and their lands (hard enough filling a lot of the new spaces)--Which is why decades of allowing developers and the chamber driven community, ONLY to dictate land use policy, is like letting Dracula watch the blood bank, or loggers being in charge of forest management and promoting bio-diversity within them.

 

Bottom line...someday soon, in a state with our current urban and rural characteristics bumping into one another in many places.......if we want to curb all the willy nilly sprawl the majority of us frown upon on UO, then we will have to face the fact we need a more comprehensive statewide land use approach designed and authored by a body that consists of a much more diverse body of input....than just the developers for sprawl-mart and politicians. The right hand needs to know what the left hand is doing between communities, so to speak, and how they affect each other, rather than all doing their own thing and not forming a more consistent end result and picture. A more regional approach is what I am getting at....

 

Such was tried in the 70's but shot down by the "its my property and I'll do whatever I wish" philosophies...which disregard the interests of other property owners they may affect. The upstream polluter analogy is a good example.  I cannot remember the states that already do implement what I am trying to say here.. I think Conn. was one of them, but the result here and philosophy would be less emphasis for developing sprawl...and more for urban core renewal and creating vibrant cores, while preserving the rural way of life and the independent family farming community which are often forced or left no choice but to dell out from sprawl pressures...and also maintaining the integrity of smaller communities.

 

Man, I am sure someone could express what I am trying to say in a much more concise way!

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Vermont had land use policies to force businesses to use and reuse areas that were already developed.  Of late, the big box and Walmarts have been getting their way in Vermont, though.

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I used to go to the american mall when I was a kid when we would take trips to lima. It used to be fairly busy but it was always 2nd class to the lima mall. I do believe there where some decent stores(limited brands) at one point  but the main tenants where value city and andersons. I believe there was a pharmor and shoe carnival as well. Not exactly the big draw retailers.

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Andersons gone, Cafaro planning mall's future

November 11, 2009 9:23 PM

By Bart Mills, Lima News

 

LIMA — The wine selection has been sold off, the famed Mexicali dip is done.  After 16 years in Lima, The Andersons has officially left town.  The popular food and hardware chain technically closed to customers on Sunday, but liquidators contracted by the business and a few soon-to-be ex-staff members plan to man the Elm Street shop at least through the end of this week while they sell off the shelving and sundry fixtures that remain.

 

The Andersons was the last store remaining in the once-popular mall.  Mall owners Cafaro Inc. announced plans almost two years ago to renovate the mall into a “lifestyle” retail center similar to Easton Towne Center in Columbus.  The recession and declines in the retail market have slowed those plans, but on Wednesday Cafaro spokesman Joe Bell said there has been progress, though the final product may not be what was originally announced.

 

That redevelopment could include an open-air mall or it might be a mix of retail, office space and even residences, Bell said.

 

READ MORE HERE

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Cafaro unveils American Village plans

By Bart Mills, Lima News

Published Nov. 18, 2009

 

LIMA — With The Andersons closed, the American Mall is officially a vacant building, but the mall’s owners say it won’t stay that way forever, and changes may be coming sooner than some expected.

 

Duke Connor, vice president of real estate for American Mall owners the Cafaro Co., laid out the latest plan for the mall on Tuesday, a plan that mixes the “lifestyle center” concept they originally announced for the property with office space and other uses, what he called “a poor man’s lifestyle center.”

 

The open-concept property — renamed American Village —would include multiple buildings, including a 20,000-square-foot medical office building.  Connor said he is speaking with local restaurant owners along with national retailers about moving in as well.

 

READ MORE HERE

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Lima Shay Locomotive Moving to new home on Monday

By Aubree Kaye | Friday, December 11, 2009

 

The City of Lima has agreed to close Metcalf Street (between Market and High Street on Monday, December 14th in order to position a crane to move the Lima Locomotive.  The locomotive will be moving to it's new home inside the new Allen County Museum addition that is currently under construction.

 

MORE: http://www.downtownlimaohio.com/news/news.asp?NewsID=50

 

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Vermont had land use policies to force businesses to use and reuse areas that were already developed. Of late, the big box and Walmarts have been getting their way in Vermont, though.

That's too bad.

 

Sad thread because someone actually thought the mall (not just this one, but all malls) was a good idea in the first place.

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Physicians group to build at American Mall

By Bart Mills, Lima News

Published Jan. 15, 2010

 

LIMA — The first phase in the remodeled American Mall may not be a store or restaurant, but it is just what the doctor ordered.  Equity Inc., a Columbus-based developer that specializes in medical facilities, has plans to build a 20,000-square-foot medical office building on the American Mall property, of which 10,000 square feet has already been claimed by tenants.  The facility will sit north of the existing mall, facing Market Street.  Construction is expected to begin in March.

 

The medical center would be the first phase of the long-promised change to the former American Mall.  The mall’s owner, Cafaro Co., announced plans more than two years ago to redevelop the mall area into a lifestyle center similar to Easton Town Center in Columbus.  The company has since altered those plans.  In November, a Cafaro executive said the new plan was for an open-concept property — renamed American Village — that would include multiple buildings, including the medical office building.

 

READ MORE HERE

 

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An artist's rendering shows a proposed medical complex on the site of the former American Mall in Lima.

 

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City pressing for Streetscape project

Heather Rutz, Lima News

Published Jan. 26, 2010

 

LIMA — In theory, the city could pay the entire local match for a grant largely funding repairing the 30-year-old downtown Streetscape.  It is asking the county to share the burden of the local match, and if it does not, will most likely pursue repairs without the grant and assess property owners.

 

City Council will vote in the future on the project repairing and replacing existing sidewalks, crosswalks, landscaping and trash cans.  If the council approves the project and county commissioners decline to pay $225,000 in a local match, a separate ordinance is required for the city to pursue the project funded by property assessment.

 

A $1.2 million federal grant is available to the city, which has agreed to pay a $320,000 share of the local match.  The city wants the county to help with the local match.  Pursuing the project funded with assessments will mean a $390,000 bill for the county as owners of property downtown.

 

READ MORE

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Missing link' of Riverwalk complete

Kelly Byer, Lima News

Published July 16, 2010

 

LIMA — Michael Ayers and his family rode bicycles from Heritage Park to Ottawa Metro Park to attend the dedication of a newly completed Rotary River Walk section, which connects west to east.

 

After about six years of planning and two years of construction, the section is finally finished.  But it wasn’t without some difficulties.  Because of railroads and Interstate 75, three pedestrian bridges and a path under the interstate had to be created according to Ohio transportation codes.

 

“This last section is really very important because it makes the final link in the total project,” said Kevin Haver, director of the Johnny Appleseed Metropolitan Park District.  “It’s a great park to enjoy.”

 

READ MORE


"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

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American Mall selling off scraps

November 05, 2010 4:25 PM

By Bart Mills, Lima News

 

LIMA — The American Mall is back in business, sort of.  Crews from mall owner Cafaro Inc. have opened up the long-shuttered building for one last sale.  This time, they are selling off the equipment, scraps and sundry remains of the once popular mall.  “We’re basically removing things that have value,” said Cafaro spokesman Joe Bell.

 

Last November, Cafaro announced a change in plans to an open-concept property — renamed American Village — that would include multiple buildings, including a medical office building, restaurants and national retailers.  So far, nothing has come of those plans. 

 

In January, a Columbus-based developer and local physician Dr. Christopher Lucchese announced plans to build a 20,000-square-foot medical office building on the site.  Bell said those plans fell through when the developers were unable to finance the project.

 

READ MORE HERE

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Ruler Foods opens in downtown Lima

 

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Ruthie Mays was one of the first customers in the door at the new Ruler Foods for the grand opening Thursday.

 

The West Elm Street store is close to Mays’ home and gives her a nearby option rather than driving to the east or west side of town.

 

“This is great. I just live down the street,” Mays said. “We had to go way across town to go to the grocery.”

 

More below:

http://limaohio.com/news/208408/ruler-foods-opens-in-downtown-lima


"You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers

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Dayton VA moving clinic to new location

 

image.jpg

 

The Dayton VA Medical Center is moving its Lima clinic to a larger location this spring.

 

The Lima Community Based Outpatient Clinic, currently located at 1303 Bellefontaine Ave., will move to 750 W. High St. following renovations.

 

More below:

https://www.bizjournals.com/dayton/news/2017/10/03/dayton-va-moving-clinic-to-new-location.html


"You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers

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