"Occupy Wall Street" Movement

[Hts121 0]

 

Isn't it sort of racist to claim no black man can be conservative unless there's some kind of subservient attitude involved?

 

Sure it is

[Jeffrey 1]

Reading the news, it seems the flagship OWS occupations in NYC and the West Coasts are going down in a blaze of disruption.  It's going to be ironic that the one that started it all, the one in New York, is augering-in and self-destructing a spasm of violence, leaving all these little peacefull and more or less law-abiding Occupations still standing out here in flyover country. 

[gottaplan 103]

 

Isn't it sort of racist to claim no black man can be conservative unless there's some kind of subservient attitude involved?

 

Sure it is

 

Herman Cain says the biggest racists out there are white liberals who feel they need to show the blacks who to vote for

[MyTwoSense 457]

Reading the news, it seems the flagship OWS occupations in NYC and the West Coasts are going down in a blaze of disruption.  It's going to be ironic that the one that started it all, the one in New York, is augering-in and self-destructing a spasm of violence, leaving all these little peacefull and more or less law-abiding Occupations still standing out here in flyover country. 

 

I think they should all be shut down!  Let them all self destruct!

[Boreal 0]

Herman Cain doesn't even know what a "neoconservative" is.  I am disgusted by these power hungry egotists who don't even keep up with current events.

[Jeffrey 1]

I think they should all be shut down!  Let them all self destruct!

 

....you do the bitter bitchy queen so well! :wink:

 

@@@@

 

In any case, here is an misleading analyses from a NY paper...

 

Braun: Occupy Wall Street's 'day of action' proves the movement is going mainstream

 

...ignore the headline, and read this:

 

No question but that the city’s unions and other civil society groups were caught unawares by the Occupy Wall Street movement when it began two months ago. They followed the young anarchists and radicalized computer geeks who planned and executed the takeover of Zuccotti Park.

 

But Thursday what was left of the original group seemed badly splintered and unable to focus. Some wanted to throw their bodies at the police guarding the intersection of Broadway and Wall Street. Others wanted to maintain their brief reoccupation of the park. Because of their model of "horizontal democracy," the remnants of the original group— evicted three days ago in a middle-of-the-night police raid —couldn’t find consensus.

 

...which is why I could never be an anarchist.  And I've seen first-hand how these GA's could drag one and become mired.

 

But I'm wondering if that out here in flyover country we are more reality-based? 

 

There is this pragmatic streak to the Midwestern mind, which makes things go more reasonably and there is less "theory" and more "do practicle, tangible things to fix", less ideology and more duct-tape.

 

I think the first place where I read that the local Occupations were starting to get local, address local issues, was in the Midwest, were Occupy Minneapolis and Des Moines doing things around evictions and foreclosures.  Cleveland is doing this too. 

 

Also, the other Occupations...some of them...try to minimize conflict with authorities, more in a "we want to stay in business" POV vs provoking confilct...tho that does happen (interestingly the Albany occupiers do both...cooperate with the city but fight with Cuomo).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Jeffrey 1]

Theree is rumors on the OD facebook page that the Dayton camp will be raided this weekend. 

 

There was a Dayton PD cruiser on the square this morning  (around 5:30 AM). 

[UrbanSurfin 2]

They failed to BUY their free speech.

 

Tell me if I'm wrong, but the Constitution protects free speech, right to assemble, etc. No where does it protect the right to occupy land, whether private or public property. If you set up a tent, you are occupying land.

 

In my city, the abortion protestors show up regularly at an abortion clinic. The rule is it that they are not allowed to loiter, etc., so they pace up and down the sidewalk.

 

The constitution protects freedom of the press, but it does not provide the press! You have to have your own press.

 

Jeffrey - that's quite a bit of reporting you've done. Thanks for sharing.

 

 

And nowhere does it say that corporations and billionaires have the right to anonymously run negative multimillion-dollar ad campaigns that subvert the democratic process.

[Hts121 0]

Did these idiots in San Diego really hold a moment of silence for the schizo who shot at the White House?  If true and even if isolated to one or two brain dead whackos, it seems like Fox/Rush/Beck/etc. have found their new flag-bearer for the OWS movement.

 

 

 

Isn't it sort of racist to claim no black man can be conservative unless there's some kind of subservient attitude involved?

 

Sure it is

 

Herman Cain says the biggest racists out there are white liberals who feel they need to show the blacks who to vote for

 

I'm not sure what that even means.  It doesn't seem to make much sense.  Are "white liberals" not allowed to argue their case to the black community and endorse certain candidates?  Would the same thought process apply to white conservatives who feel they need to show "the blacks" who to vote for?  What if Cain were to tell 'the blacks' that they shouldn't vote for democrats.... would that be racist?

[gottaplan 103]

interesting opinion piece by Sarah Palin today arguing the "OWS" groups should be focusing more attention on Congress and their unregulated benefits.

 

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204323904577040373463191222.html

 

Perhaps the Tea Party and the OWS groups really do have more in common than what most people thought.

[MyTwoSense 457]

I think they should all be shut down!  Let them all self destruct!

 

....you do the bitter bitchy queen so well! ;)

 

 

[Hts121 0]

That is 'the line' at the moment that I keep seeing coming from Joe Public..... "cut Congress' pay and benefits"..... "freeze congress' salary"...... "pay congress minimum wage"

 

First, I don't think that any of those measures would make a ding, let alone a dent, in any financial or employment issues we as a nation are facing.  Second, anyone who thinks that most members congressmen really give a da#n about their 'official' salary is kidding themselves  Third, this is just another attempt by the Right to protect its coffers and try to re-direct all attention and antagonism towards D.C.  Fourth, you don't really think that piece is "by Sarah Palin", do you?  I will give the piece credit for pointing out some obvious flaws in the political process which need to be addressed (although I'm not sure how you do that now that McCain-Feingold was thrown out).

[CBC 0]

^^^ I think that has been brought up several times before. Both groups are looking around saying,"What happened to the middle class in the USA?" The older group, the Tea Party, feels like they are losing or have lost the middle class security they once had, and the younger  OWS'ers are looking around and are pissed because they see very little opportunity to achieve the stable middle class existence that was once obtainable. They are both pissed off about basically the same thing and are pointing fingers in the opposite directions.

 

BTW: I didn't read the article, I am speaking in general terms.

[Jeffrey 1]

Getting pumped for my visit to the garden spot of the earth:

 

From LEO (Louisville Eccentric Observer):

 

Optimistic on 'Occupy'

 

This thing has got more heart and energy than anything I’ve witnessed in my life,” said Stephen Shepard, the Occupy Lexington spitfire who accompanied me to its Louisville counterpart on two sunny, breezy afternoons last weekend....

 

 

....After a month downtown, Occupy Louisville, the local collective of an unprecedented global, grassroots, nonviolent revolution, is thriving. Despite a recent cold snap, the close-knit group of citizens remains committed to its around-the-clock vigil in Jefferson Square Park, a small venue at Sixth and Jefferson between the PNC Bank skyscraper and the Hall of Justice.

 

The serenity belies a mighty sense of excitement among folks from all walks of life — college students, single mothers, middle-aged men — mostly unemployed or underemployed — struggling and raging against the machine of corporate greed that has dismantled the American Dream...

 

...damn, I love Louisville.  Looking forward to getting back.

 

In fact, next year, I might relocate back permanently.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[gottaplan 103]

I think both groups can find alot of common ground in reducing corporate influence in Congress

[Jeffrey 1]

^

...agree.

 

 

[CBC 0]

^ Nice to hear.

 

Let's face it the Middle Class boom of the 50's and 60's were really an abnormality caused by two main factors, 1: Most of the developed world had been destroyed by WWII and 2: The post WWII babyboom. Both, in the terms of a simple Econ 101 Supply/Demand curve lifted the value of the average US worker higher than it had been in any other time in history. The destruction both increased demand and lowered competing supply. The babyboom  skyrocketed demand, which in turn skyrocketed demand for workers.

 

I am not sure that we can every get back to that or something even close.

 

I am getting off topic.

[Jeffrey 1]

Heres an interesting article with cool graphic from Bloomberg Buisness Week

 

The Unlikely Outposts of Occupy Wall Street

 

"....banned from Zucotti Park but coming to a resort town near your."

 

"After police in New York, Oakland, and Portland shut down the tent cities that have defined Occupy Wall Street, protesters vowed to keep the two-month-old global rally going. Across the U.S., OWS activists in upscale areas have gone hyper-local, adding community issues to the larger movement’s anti-corporate message. Many are also ditching the tarps and tents that have provoked mayors and police chiefs, preferring to occupy their own beds"

 

I still think the funniest (probably just one guy and a facebook page) was Occupy Eaton (in rural Preble County OH).

 

 

[Jeffrey 1]

Let's face it the Middle Class boom of the 50's and 60's were really an abnormality

 

....except that, before the 1950s & 60s,  factory & service workers, in the Midwest at least, were able to afford their own homes on one or two salarys.  That would be the case or you wouldnt have the mile upon square mile of single family or duplex housing you see througout urban Ohio, Indiana, Wisconsin, etc....

[MyTwoSense 457]

Let's face it the Middle Class boom of the 50's and 60's were really an abnormality

 

....except that, before the 1950s & 60s,  factory & service workers, in the Midwest at least, were able to afford their own homes on one or two salarys.  That would be the case or you wouldnt have the mile upon square mile of single family or duplex housing you see througout urban Ohio, Indiana, Wisconsin, etc....

Because families of that time, lived within their means and credit was rarely used in the manner in which it is used today so a home could still be managed on one salary.

[Jeffrey 1]

....exactley.  A home cant be managed on one salary today becuase work doesnt pay enough.  Even back in the robber baron days work payed enough to build cities of houses, not shantytowns.

 

 

[MyTwoSense 457]

....exactley.  A home cant be managed on one salary today becuase work doesnt pay enough.  Even back in the robber baron days work payed enough to build cities of houses, not shantytowns.

 

 

 

Depends on what type of home you're buying.  Are you trying to live within your means or ball and be house poor.  So many people do not know or forget that there is more to home ownership than just signing the mortgage and moving in.

 

I'm sickened - and I'm a hypocrite - when today I see people who want 3 or 4 bedroom homes with a lot of space, yet they have no children, no furniture, will continue to live a lifestyle that doesn't fit with home ownership.  Then on top of that they do no routine maintenance on the home and wonder why it depreciates.

[Cygnus 11]

First Occupy protesters in court have charges dropped

 

City prosecutors dismissed charges Friday against eight Occupy Cincinnati protesters who were ticketed for camping in a Downtown park.

 

The cases were the first scheduled for hearings in Hamilton County Municipal Court, where the protesters had planned to argue that police did not have the authority to charge them with violating park board rules.

 

City Solicitor John Curp said he decided to drop the charges because prosecutors were unable to get all of the city officials and business owners needed for the hearing to court on Friday. He said he expects everyone to be available for another hearing early next month during which the city will argue its case.

 

Cont

 

 

[Jeffrey 1]

I havnt said too much about Cincinnati during all this, even though I went to their kick-off ralley in Lytle Park.

 

Seems like Cincy officials acted early-on to stop camping.  Is Occupy Cincinnati still functioning in any organizational sense, or is just people gathering and getting arrested?

[eastvillagedon 84]

^it makes me wonder about the kind of people who read those type of forums :wink:

 

The same kind that slow down for a really bad car accident, I suppose.  And judging from what I just read (before it was closed), the posters include a lot of people who are upset with the (lack of) aim and timing by a certain nutjob out of Idaho.

 

I guess you mean this nutjob, right??

 

'Occupy' Protestors Honor White House Shooter with Moment of Silence

 

http://nation.foxnews.com/occupy-wall-street/2011/11/17/occupy-protestors-honor-white-house-shooter-moment-silence

 

By Ken Shepherd, Newsbusters.org | November 17, 2011 | 11:48

 

During the height of the Tea Party protests, the liberal media sought to hype any hint that the movement may turn violent against Democrats in general and President Obama in particular.

 

For example, Hardball's Chris Matthews famously blew up in August 2009 at a libertarian protester who legally carried a gun to a presidential townhall meeting in New Hampshire, suggesting it was wildly inappropriate "given the violent history of this country with regard to presidents and assassinations."

 

So it should be interesting to see what attention, if any, the mainstream media pays to Occupy San Diego honoring suspected White House shooter and likely Occupy DC participant Oscar Ramiro Ortega-Hernandez

[Hts121 0]

I believe the descriptors I used on the previous page were "idiots" and "whackos".  I hope your right that it was just one isolated nutjob.

 

Did these idiots in San Diego really hold a moment of silence for the schizo who shot at the White House?  If true and even if isolated to one or two brain dead whackos, it seems like Fox/Rush/Beck/etc. have found their new flag-bearer for the OWS movement.

 

The type of article you posted always humors me.  It's always funny watching partisan media outlets throw stones in their glass houses.

[eastvillagedon 84]

I believe the descriptors I used on the previous page were "idiots" and "whackos".  I hope your right that it was just one isolated nutjob.

 

Did these idiots in San Diego really hold a moment of silence for the schizo who shot at the White House?  If true and even if isolated to one or two brain dead whackos, it seems like Fox/Rush/Beck/etc. have found their new flag-bearer for the OWS movement.

 

The type of article you posted always humors me.  It's always funny watching partisan media outlets throw stones in their glass houses.

:laugh: ha ha, I know, maybe MSNBC should use less glass!

[Hts121 0]

MSNBC and Fox don't have any glass left.  But feel free to keep getting YOUR news from the latter.

 

Of course, boneheads say dumb things that often need clarification (which you won't read on Fox)....

 

"Whoever shot at the White House is basically a terrorist," LoRusso tells CityBeat, "and I was holding a moment of silence for the White House and President Obama and everyone in the White House. I wasn't holding a moment of silence for the terrorist in any way. We're a peaceful movement, and we don't support people shooting at the White House."

 

*  *  *  *  *

 

"I was just thinking how terrible it is that our nation has someone who tried to shoot at our White House, our country’s main deal, and that’s what makes our country beautiful is that we have a White House that carries all the establishment that makes our country awesome."

 

http://www.sdcitybeat.com/sandiego/blog-608-occupy-san-diego-protester-says-his-moment-of-solidarity-was-misunderstood.html

 

As is clear in his response to the conservative pundits wet-dream, he is not the most articulate fellow.

[DanB 0]

....exactley.  A home cant be managed on one salary today becuase work doesnt pay enough.  Even back in the robber baron days work payed enough to build cities of houses, not shantytowns.

 

 

 

If people lived today as they lived in the "old" days, one income would be more than enough to manage a home in a city of houses.

[bfwissel 28]

I havnt said too much about Cincinnati during all this, even though I went to their kick-off ralley in Lytle Park.

 

Seems like Cincy officials acted early-on to stop camping.  Is Occupy Cincinnati still functioning in any organizational sense, or is just people gathering and getting arrested?

 

They are still a bit active here in Cincy.  Jesse Jackson stopped by recently and a dozen or so people got arrested again for staying in the park after hours.  Honestly, they have become a group that is focusing mostly on the bottom 1% (headed by a full-time homeless "advocate" that lives in Indian Hill and a former boy band member) as well as their rights to stay in a neighborhood park after hours (to the detriment of the rights of those who live in the area).

[MyTwoSense 457]

....exactley.  A home cant be managed on one salary today becuase work doesnt pay enough.  Even back in the robber baron days work payed enough to build cities of houses, not shantytowns.

 

 

 

If people lived today as they lived in the "old" days, one income would be more than enough to manage a home in a city of houses.

 

AMEN!  If this new generation gave up on "keeping up with the Jones'" relying on credit and having to have the "next biggest thing" then maybe they wouldn't be in the financial situation they are in good.

[Jeffrey 1]

^

thx

 

Anyone up on what is happening in Columbus and Toledo?

 

As for Occupy Cincinnati, interesting to hear.  I was at their kickoff and was impressed that they got a good turnout and seemed somewhat organized, too, to the point of having sort of marshalls or guides helping lead things.  Not sure what happened.  Maybe the original leadership was all busted during the early arrests.

 

I surfed into the Louisville site and...on line at least...they seemed to use their breathing space (they have an extended permit to use space downtown)  to get organized and plan events and things.  Looks good. 

 

@@@@

 

The situation in Dayton is iffy.  Im actually on the fringes of this scene now, but I think they are trying to keep their camp going, but are in a very ambiguous position.  And, these are just kids out there camping now.  Or they seem like kids to me. 

 

I'm wondering if the police can just act unilaterally...say the police chief, county sheriff,  or lower level officer can give the order to disperse and then intiate arrests, without any requests by local officials.  They are occupying without a permit, and one can assume the police are documenting violations.

 

Since the police havn't acted yet, I think there is going to be a decision point somewhere.  Maybe they are awaiting till after Saturday, which is when the response is expected to the request to reduce footprint.

 

 

 

 

[Jeffrey 1]

From Louisville...

 

Occupy Louisville: For varied reasons, people continue to be drawn to protest downtown

 

 

Louisville’s Occupy protest, which began Oct. 4, is one of dozens of similar encampments across the country that have sprung up since demonstrations began near Wall Street in New York on Sept. 17. But even as a wave of police actions this week cleared protest sites in such cities as Oakland, Calif., and New York, Occupy Louisville remains undisturbed.

 

Although the protesters have had to move several times, they now have a permit to camp out in Founders Square until the end of the year. And the protest has grown — since the move to Founders Square from Liberty Park last Thursday, the overnight population has roughly doubled, to about 20, depending on the night, according to participants.

 

...thus begins a five page Courier-Journal article on Occupy Louisville.

 

 

[E Rocc 178]

MSNBC and Fox don't have any glass left.  But feel free to keep getting YOUR news from the latter.

 

Of course, boneheads say dumb things that often need clarification (which you won't read on Fox)....

 

"Whoever shot at the White House is basically a terrorist," LoRusso tells CityBeat, "and I was holding a moment of silence for the White House and President Obama and everyone in the White House. I wasn't holding a moment of silence for the terrorist in any way. We're a peaceful movement, and we don't support people shooting at the White House."

 

*  *  *  *  *

 

"I was just thinking how terrible it is that our nation has someone who tried to shoot at our White House, our countrys main deal, and thats what makes our country beautiful is that we have a White House that carries all the establishment that makes our country awesome."

 

http://www.sdcitybeat.com/sandiego/blog-608-occupy-san-diego-protester-says-his-moment-of-solidarity-was-misunderstood.html

 

As is clear in his response to the conservative pundits wet-dream, he is not the most articulate fellow.

 

Okay, so he's going to blame America for the fact that we have crazy people.  What does he suggest we do with them?

[Jeffery 0]

Greetings from Louisville.

 

A lot happening today...but not all Occupy.  One of my favorite neighborhoods, Portland, is celeberating its 200th annivesary, so I plan on going to that celebration.  More on Portland can be found here  (more for urbanists, not for politix geeks).

 

The situation at Occupy Louisville is that they relocated to Founders Square park from the park in front of the County Courthouse, to make way for the "Light up Louisville" community Xmas Tree and tree lighting (similar to what Dayton does, I guess).    They also have a permit, the support of the mayor....

 

....and the police chief gave them his cell phone number for them to call in case they have problems.  Which is a far cry from the situation in Ohio. 

 

I shared some of my pix from the other occupations Ive been to, giving them ideas and such. 

 

Also, it seems their camp is growing, but its due to homeless people coming in.  What they are now doing is educating these new campers and trying to bring them into what the Occupation is all about.  I think this homeless thing has been happening in other Occuptions and has been reported on in the media, too.

 

So in a way the Occupations are becoming a collection of Hoovervilles...I guess we could call them Obamavilles, since Obama is president?

 

I wonder if this opens up the possiblity of the politicization of the homeless?

 

 

 

 

[Jeffery 0]

Interesting to seeing the homeless reappear. 

 

I mentioned near the outset of this threat that this book, Someplace Like America sort of inspired my interest in the Occupy movement.  The book uses homelessness and the authors' investigative journalism into the hobo/traveler aspect of this as an armature to construct a history of the recent past, a history of economic and social collapse for a lot of people.

 

A history I was part of at one time and will return to in the near future.

 

So interesting to see the homeless (possibly) return to the political disucssion via the Occupy movement, shortly after this book was published.

 

 

[Eigth and State 0]

"Obamavilles" he he he

 

You heard it from Jeffrey on UO first.

[Jeffery 0]

I think this will be "it" for me for all this.  My car is breaking down and I can't afford to rent one (let alone buy one), so if I want to go out of town to travel it would have to be via Greyhound (I will be riding the dog to Louisville for Thanksgiving, which reminds me I need to get a TARC schedule to Valley Station from downtown today).

 

I was hoping to visit Occupy Lexington, but I guess this will have to be enough.

 

In closing this thread has been revealing.  Revealing in an unintentional way about some of my fellow posters at Urban Ohio (probably goes both ways),  but also revealing in how the media reports and how one can pick up info from google and online sources, tracking the story and the spin around the story. 

 

I think we can say that this movement is pretty much over, fading away and degenerating into that "Obamaville" homeless camp thing, after going out in a spasm of violence in the main centers. 

 

For me it was, for awhile, heartening to meet people....in the flesh vs online... who share my politics, or at least some of my politics.  But then the futility of all this can't be ignored, either, and that eventually trumped the sense of comraderie that I first experienced.  With an upcoming loss of a job I am more inclined to withdraw then "reach out", esp. since I tend to be a loner anyway. 

 

So, that was the Occupation.  For me it's over. 

[Eigth and State 0]

 

So, having been to all these places, what do you think of the mainstream media coverage?

[gottaplan 103]

I think we can say that this movement is pretty much over, fading away and degenerating into that "Obamaville" homeless camp thing, after going out in a spasm of violence in the main centers. 

 

Interesting take.  From the coverage I've seen, I felt like it was gaining momentum still...