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"Occupy Wall Street" Movement

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Anyone following this at all?  Didn't seem to be getting much media coverage at first, but now it's picking up a bit. 

 

This discussion could go in a number of different directions, so I guess I'm interested to hear everyone's thoughts.  Can this movement grow to the size and influence of the Tea Party movement?

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My favorite quote on the subject so far.

 

@randallb "I love that the occupy wall streeters exist, but I'd love them more if they had actionable short-term demands."

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My favorite quote on the subject so far.

 

@randallb "I love that the occupy wall streeters exist, but I'd love them more if they had actionable short-term demands."

 

I think the media are being willfully obtuse in interpreting the Occupy Wall Streeters intentions. They also have a huge list of greivances, found here. A simple and concise list:

 

1. Place fees on financial transactions and tax capital gains the same as income

2. End corporate personhood and overturn the flawed Citizens United decision

3. Get big money out of politics through substantive campaign finance reform

4. Jobs through investment in the public sector and infrastructure, not tax cuts for the wealthy and corporations

http://andrewsullivan.thedailybeast.com/2011/09/another-occupation-without-an-exit-strategy-ctd.html

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Can this movement grow to the size and influence of the Tea Party movement?

 

No

 

 

Why not?

 

Not enough crazies to fuel both movements. 

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^or not enough political clout.  The tea party has successfully run candidates and gotten them elected based on their platform.  What sort of candidates will this "occupy wall street" be able to get elected to champion their reforms? 

 

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Could you imagine?  They would all be to the left of Kucinich.  I would definitely get a kick out of watching the Tea Party get a taste of their own medicine as the OWS crowd started rolling out candidates which would fall under the same level of extremes as Sharon Angle and Christine O'Donnell.  Maybe they could actually find candidates who would actually fit the profile of what the fear mongerers at Fox News have been trying to assign, with bewildering success, to the democrats currently in power.

 

But I don't really see the difference in our two posts.  Large numbers of crazies can provide a ton of political clout which can have great influence on how a country is run.  History is filled with such examples.  As the saying goes..... never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers. 

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The media sends reporters and film crews to the smallest Teaparty gatherings, but they have been conveniently  ignoring the Occupy Wall Street movement.  Why?  Because the media is owned by American big business and they don't want change. 

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^disagree, this movement has not been ignored, I saw coverage of this all weekend on all the major news channels.  It was one of the top stories again this morning on NBC's Today Show, which is about as mainstream as it gets

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I know of some people who are in this movement. They are all studious, well-read people. And I wouldn't consider them to the left of Kucinich. Yes they are on the left, but Kucinich is a bombastic reactionary. The people that I know who have joined this movement are more thoughtful and quiet than him.


"Fascism begins the moment a ruling class, fearing the people may use their political democracy to gain economic democracy, begins to destroy political democracy in order to retain its power of exploitation and special privilege." -- Tommy Douglas, Scottish-born Canadian Baptist minister and the seventh Premier of Saskatchewan

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People didn't think the tea party would amount to anything either. The problem here is their movement is predominantly focused on a single activity in a single location, 'occupy together' groups notwithstanding. If the same thing starts spreading in a large way to multiple other cities, well, that could be something. A modern day 'bonus army' event, perhaps, but a coherent political movement? I don't know. They certainly have the brains among them, but they, like the tea party, would need to overcome their own silly extremists.

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I don't know that Occupy Wall Street ought to or is inclined to field its own candidates, but I hope it wakes up current politicians to the mistake of corporate-based government policy. For years, the trend has been toward more corporate rights and power, and declining rights and power for the people. Citizens United is just perhaps the most egregious example. And we get candidates like Romney saying stupid things like: "Corporations are people, too, my friend." The reality is that corporations are NOT people, and the Founding Fathers and their successors were deeply, deeply distrustful of corporations -- an "artifical being" (in the words of Chief Justice John Marshall) that we inherited from our former British masters. These are important lessons for the Tea Party, too. What was the Boston Tea party about? It was a protest against corporate tax breaks that the Crown granted to the East India Company when it gave the corporation a monopoly on tea imports to the colonies.

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The media sends reporters and film crews to the smallest Teaparty gatherings, but they have been conveniently  ignoring the Occupy Wall Street movement.  Why?  Because the media is owned by American big business and they don't want change. 

Are you serious?  You're generalizing - at best!  As a part of "the media" what knowledge of "the media" do you have to make and back up a statement like that? 

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^^I thought the Boston Tea Party was about telling 'them' that we weren't going to let them take our tea, or our guns. Also it was a protest against the homosexual agenda, as tea (and British naval officers) were perceived as too effeminate for real Americans.

 

[/Palin]

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Yeah.... that's what happens when. 700 people get arrested.  I certainly didn't know a thing about it before that happened.

follow #OccupyWallStreet

 

They've been making noise for months!

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I know plenty about the corporate media.  NBC is General Electric.  Fox is Fox.

Here is my best source: http://mediamatters.org/tags/networks

 

How about our local media?  The Plain Dealer didn't publish stories that were skeptical of the War on Iraq and those "WMDs".  The publisher and the owners cancelled the editorial board's endorsement of John Kerry in 2004.  That's heavy handed media.

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I know plenty about the corporate media.  NBC is General Electric.  Fox is Fox.

Here is my best source: http://mediamatters.org/tags/networks

 

How about our local media?  The Plain Dealer didn't publish stories that were skeptical of the War on Iraq and those "WMDs".  The publisher and the owners cancelled the editorial board's endorsement of John Kerry in 2004.  That's heavy handed media.

 

That is not "knowing" media.  I'm asking what you know about media operations?

 

Our local media?  We have a separate thread for that discussion, right?  ;)

 

Again, there has been plenty of coverage

http://www.cnn.com/2011/10/02/business/wall-street-protests/index.html?hpt=hp_bn2

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How about our local media?  The Plain Dealer didn't publish stories that were skeptical of the War on Iraq and those "WMDs".  The publisher and the owners cancelled the editorial board's endorsement of John Kerry in 2004.  That's heavy handed media.

 

I'm glad I'm not the only one that remembers that (and I was going to mention it, too)!  Yeah, I believe the paper ended up endorsing no one that year.

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This is a pretty sharp dude - of course Fox News doesn't air it.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Exclusive: Occupy Wall Street Activist Slams Fox News Producer In Un-Aired Interview [Video]

 

Even if Geraldo Rivera was at the Zuccotti Park yesterday, Fox News has generally been a tad dismissive of the Occupy Wall Street movement. Foxnews.com (as of this writing) has no coverage of this national event on their front page stories. (Hard to imagine for a network that was so gung-ho about the Tea Party!) Red Eye‘s Bill Schulz went out to try to “prank” the protesters. Bill O’Reilly sent a producer minion out with the same mission: to belittle OWS’s cause by cutting up interviews to make people sound stupid.

 

Well, here is an interview that Fox News filmed, but doesn’t want you to see. The segment was shot on Wednesday for Greta van Susteren‘s show, (though it looks like the same producer from this O’Reilly segment questioning Michael Moore‘s anti-capitalist agenda) though the decision was made to leave it on the cutting room floor. The reason should be obvious pretty quickly.

 

http://www.observer.com/2011/10/exclusive-occupy-wall-street-activist-slams-fox-news-anchor-in-un-aired-interview-video/

 

------------------

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This will fizzle out after a bit.  There is no big money or behind-the-scenes backing behind it the way there was with the Tea Party.  The Tea Party was a good mix of genuine grass-roots right-wing populist outrage combined with channeling effects from conservative donors and  probably activitists.

 

I don't think this Occupy Wall Street thing is anything more than the usual left wing activist types.  It doesnt have the grass roots populist thing that made Tea Party a force. 

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Can this movement grow to the size and influence of the Tea Party movement?

There's no equivelant to Fox News pushing its agenda, There aren't any significant leaders joining in, Its ideals are more complicated than "Taxes=Evil".

 

No

 

 

Why not?

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This will fizzle out after a bit.  There is no big money or behind-the-scenes backing behind it the way there was with the Tea Party. 

 

There is now.  Several big labor unions have got on board and joined the movement, Federation of Teachers, SEIU, Transit Workers...

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^

Labor is a small part of the workforce.  Only 7% of the private sector workforce is unionized.  In the grand scheme of things we are not talking about a lot of people.

 

Therefore, "conservative donors" = "grass roots populist thing"

 

I dont know too much about the Tea Party, but I DO know that that Tea Party event I went to on Courthouse Square in downtown Dayton, when this movement was just taking off (i think there are pix of it here somewhere), was the best attended non-partisan political event I've ever seen in this city, and the folks attending were just average middle class locals. 

 

From my POV this was the real deal, not some astroturf thing.

 

 

 

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well now you're talking about two separate things... number of people or amount of money.  Number of people in organized unions is one thing but the amount of money in organized unions is another.  Add in the number of politicians who will get in line with whatever direction they decide the wind is blowing, and this movement could very easily continue to grow.  Look at the local politicians who decided to support the Postal Workers Union...

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The fact that organized labor is down to 7 percent of the workforce is why this is important. Tea Party activists also are a tiny fraction of the American public, but have outsized influence due to big money from corporate donors. Their agenda is more power to the corporations and the wealthy, and less to the workers. Yes, this is class warfare -- now that the working class is starting to fight back against the attacks of the ruling class (corporations, big money and their Congressional toadies). But America and the Constitution are about the People, not the corporations. This will grow.

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Keep in mind that these types of 'movements' don't have any campaign financing rules to which they must adhere.  The Tea Party would have fizzled too if not for the funding from big business backers.  If this OWS group is able to keep it up, with any significant volume, for more than a month I will be surprised.

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An Open Letter to Wall Street

Tuesday 4 October 2011

 

by: William Rivers Pitt, Truthout | Op-Ed

 

Cancel my subscription

To the resurrection

Send my credentials to the

House of detention

I got some friends inside...

 

- James Douglas Morrison

Before anything else, I would like to apologize for the mess outside your office. It's been three weeks since all those hippies and punk-rockers and students and union members and working mothers and single fathers and airline pilots and teachers and retail workers and military service members and foreclosure victims decided to camp out on your turf, and I'm sure it has been quite an inconvenience for you. How is a person supposed to spend their massive, virtually untaxed bonus money on a double latte and an eight-ball with all that rabble clogging the sidewalks, right?

 

Your friends at JP Morgan Chase just donated $4.6 million to the New York City Police Foundation, the largest donation ever given to the NYPD. You'd think that much cheese would buy a little crowd control, but no. Sure, one of the "white shirt" commanding NYPD officers on the scene hosed down some defenseless women with pepper spray the other day, and a few other protesters have been roughed up here and there, and having any kind of recording device has proven to be grounds for immediate arrest, but seriously...for $4.6 million, you'd think the cops would oblige you by bulldozing these troublemakers right into the Hudson River. Better yet, pave them over with yellow bricks, so you can walk over them every day on your way in to work.

 

That's what you do anyway, right? Every single day. I know it. You know it. We might as well be honest about it, and if some shiny golden bricks wind up serving as anonymous tombstones for your working-class doormats, well, that's just what they call in Wisconsin "hard cheese." You're a Master of the Universe, after all, and this recess(depress)ion hasn't touched you to any great degree. Sure, you have to shoulder your way through more homeless people these days, and damn if there aren't a lot more potholes to tax the undercarriage of your Audi R8 GT, but your money is making money at a fantastic rate, and paying taxes is for other people; I mean, come on, your accountant bursts out laughing whenever he hears the words "capital gains tax," so your egregious sense of entitlement is entirely understandable.

 

Now is the time to bone up on your coping skills, because three weeks is nothing. The people camped out on Wall Street are not leaving unless and until they are cleared out by force. They look all kinds of silly in their outfits, and some of their statements don't make a whole lot of sense to people like you, but they have put down roots, and you better get used to them. I'm sure the whole phenomenon is quite perplexing to you - really, why don't they just go home? Don't these people have jobs?

 

I hate to be the Irony Police, but that's pretty much the whole point. They can't, and they don't. Have homes and jobs, I mean. There was a guy out there a few days ago holding a sign in front of a mortgage-lending institution that read "These People Took My Parent's Home." There are all sorts of people walking around Wall Street yelling their lungs out at you because, well, they really would like the opportunity to find gainful employment, as well as a future, but that nifty shell game you and yours pulled off (on our dime) wound up immolating the economy of the common man/woman, and so the common man/woman has decided - in lieu of anything else better to do - to spend their you-created idle hours on your doorstep.

 

Let's face it: the mess outside your office is your doing. You and your friends bought this democracy wholesale - ah, yes, the irony of freedom is found in the way you were able to corrupt so many legislators with your money, always legally, because the legislators you bought are the ones writing the laws covering political contributions, and thus the wheel of corruption turns and turns - and now you want this democracy to do your bidding after the bill for your excess and fathomless greed has come due.

 

You are always taken care of - see the Citizens United decision, which unleashed you in a way not seen since the dregs of the Roman empire - but, still, there are those pesky protesters, exercising their freedom of expression in order to expose you for the brigands that you are.

 

They're staying put, with many more on the way - to New York as well as every major city from sea to shining sea -  and none of them are going anywhere else until people like you are taken from your citadels in handcuffs and made to pay for the ongoing rape of what was once quaintly called the American Dream...a dream that used to be something other than a dated metaphor, and can be something true and real and genuine once again, but only after we pave you under, and walk over you, on our way to a better, brighter future.

 

http://www.truth-out.org/open-letter-wall-street/1317680703

 

This work by Truthout is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-Noncommercial 3.0 United States License:  http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/3.0/us/

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Good Grief...I remember Will Pitt from Democratic Underground.  He was a big presence there back in 2004.....

 

Pretty words.  Nothing more.

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"Occupy Greene County"

 

Group Ralleys for Bus Stops

 

 

...how the 'class war' plays out on the ground here in Dayton.  Advocates for the poor & working poor transit dependent population vs an affluent suburban community that is becoming an employment center.

 

No its not "Occupy Wall Street", but maybe more "real" on how people look at our widening socioeconomic divide, the haves vs the have-nots....keeping the have-nots at bay and out of sight.

 

 

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