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Columbus: German Village / Schumacher Place Developments and News

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1 hour ago, Pablo said:

^^The Panera on High St is outside of GV.

 

That wouldn't have stopped people from going to commission meetings and speaking out against it.  The GV Commission wouldn't have had any real say, but residents would have.  High Street is definitely the edge of GV to most people and more visible than Livingston, even if the border technically stops at Pearl. 

Edited by jonoh81
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From Business First:

 

Quote

"Is there anyone who wants German Village to be another Short North? I just don't see it as a win for German Village," said Jim Nicholson, a 27-year resident of the neighborhood who said the project "pares away our defenses" against taller buildings.

 

"The flaws proposed in the structure seem to be an intractable problem," said Delilah Lopez, executive director of the German Village Society. "This would irrevocably altar the historic fabric of the neighborhood."

 

 

My favorite: 

 

Quote

"irrevocably altar the historic fabric of the neighborhood."

 

This argument is old. Tired. And flat out bat crap crazy.  No. Cars and destroying 1/3 of the neighborhood for a freaking highway did. Building a hotel will not. These people.... yikes.... probably the same type of people woke enough to decry income inequality and homelessness then fund campaigns against low income or homeless resources anywhere near them. Aha! That's it! I wanna see a developer propose a small village of structures that mimic GV 100% and propose that it be transitional housing and resources and see how they react. Let's push the limits and see if it truly is over glass and steel, height, and parking....

 

 

Edited by DTCL11
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New German Village hotel proposal met with resistance from neighborhood residents

 

mcgown-hotel*750xx1343-755-0-3.png

 

About two dozen German Village residents spoke out against the latest proposal for a Livingston Avenue hotel during Tuesday's meeting of the German Village Commission.

 

Developer Michael Casey of Wickford Holdings LLC formally presented his idea for a 135-room hotel at 31-35 E. Livingston Ave. to the commission Tuesday night. The proposed hotel would replace a smaller office building on the northern edge of the neighborhood, across the street from the I-70 and I-71 interchange.

 

Casey's team, which includes architect Moody Nolan Inc. and Edge Landscape Architecture & Design, is the second group in two years to attempt a hotel development on the site.

 

More below:

https://www.bizjournals.com/columbus/news/2019/10/02/new-german-village-hotel-proposal-met-with.html


"You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers

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^^ This really looks good-especially considering what is there now. They need to just approve this and override the damn commission if necessary.  The city needs to send a message to some of these commissions that with a growing city there needs to be some reasonableness and at least some sense of cooperation on their part.  This is NOT going to "irrevocably alter the historic fabric of the neighborhood" or anything even close the that. 

 

If the neighborhood commissions are going to be this obviously unreasonable then the city just needs to call it out and override.

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On 10/2/2019 at 4:28 PM, DTCL11 said:

From Business First:

 

 

 

My favorite: 

 

 

This argument is old. Tired. And flat out bat crap crazy.  No. Cars and destroying 1/3 of the neighborhood for a freaking highway did. Building a hotel will not. These people.... yikes.... probably the same type of people woke enough to decry income inequality and homelessness then fund campaigns against low income or homeless resources anywhere near them. Aha! That's it! I wanna see a developer propose a small village of structures that mimic GV 100% and propose that it be transitional housing and resources and see how they react. Let's push the limits and see if it truly is over glass and steel, height, and parking....

 

 

This really is needed. I would love to see something like this proposed for the old Big Bear site lol.  Or right along HIgh-just out of reach of the GV Commission. The howls of outrage would be heard all the way to Cleveland!

 

*And organize every organization that represents low income/subsidized housing/etc to have round the clock protesting! hahaha  I would join it!

Edited by Toddguy
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I had to put this somewhere before I lost it in the Facebook minefield. These people are absolutely insane. Certifiable. They would literally die if they saw how other growing and/or large cities, have blends of old and new next to each other. 1800s victorians next to 2000s modern glass and steel. Oh. The. Horror! And yet, they are still wildly successful neighborhoods and the charm and character is still present. Nothing is lost by such juxtapositions. 

 

"Nothing is Sacred. Not Even German Village"

 

Quote

For luxury condo or apartment developers, we have heard it’s feast or famine. So it’s no surprise they want density in our coolest neighborhoods, which is bad enough. Worse is how they are building boorish and Easton-like monsters without any empathy for current residents or historical preservation.

Nothing is sacred to them. Not even German Village, the city’s most historical and aesthetic neighborhood.

 

'Bad enough they want density in the coolest neighborhoods'.... to which I'd say 95% (ish) was done by building on long vacant land. How dare they! 

 

https://columbusfreepress.com/article/nothing-sacred-not-even-german-village?fbclid=IwAR2uERRemH4WUV4kSi1pSXY9Jb9S6ppWc5CHYb1BAx-21FZZtq-H3MCypW8

 

Edit: other than the typical garbage of 'lifeless boxes with no imagination' regarding design, what is particularly present to me in this article is 2 points.

 

1. The victim card. As if they made somehow taking advantage of them and creating harm. That somehow, the destination they have gained national attention for is wrong to allow visitors direct access with a nearby hotel, or god forbid condos or apartments. 

 

Quote

“We are now at a place where all of a sudden this group of developers have turned and looked South and said, ‘There’s some opportunity there. We can take advantage of the destination, the charm, the identity of German Village for our projects. And we are here to make money. This is the game we play and we are not here to make your life good,’” says Katharine Moore who served as Executive Director of the German Village Society.

 

2. They acknowledge there isn't actually a threat to what has been preserved over all these years. It's all on the borders. (I go back to others suggesting the entire border of german village getting built up with massive buildings outside of GV control) 

 

Quote

 “Are we at a pivotal point? Yes. The pivotal point is encroachment from surrounding areas,” says Delilah Lopez, current Executive Director for the German Village Society. “There’s very minimal actual land within the German Village historical parameters that can even be developed. Are we at risk where we need to be on guard for those particular parcels? Absolutely. Are we? Absolutely.”

 

Edited by DTCL11

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1 hour ago, DTCL11 said:

I had to put this somewhere before I lost it in the Facebook minefield. These people are absolutely insane. Certifiable. They would literally die if they saw how other growing and/or large cities, have blends of old and new next to each other. 1800s victorians next to 2000s modern glass and steel. Oh. The. Horror! And yet, they are still wildly successful neighborhoods and the charm and character is still present. Nothing is lost by such juxtapositions. 

 

"Nothing is Sacred. Not Even German Village"

 

https://columbusfreepress.com/article/nothing-sacred-not-even-german-village?fbclid=IwAR2uERRemH4WUV4kSi1pSXY9Jb9S6ppWc5CHYb1BAx-21FZZtq-H3MCypW8

 

 

 

They’re literally arguing a parking lot and 1980s office building are sacred and a mix of brick and glass are going to destroy GV. It’s no wonder no one wanted to put their names on this trash article.  

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I am a little confused by the defeatism presented regarding the commission being appointed by the mayor and bought. Seems to be an out of place complaint as if they've been steamrolled by the city time after time? 

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36 minutes ago, DTCL11 said:

I am a little confused by the defeatism presented regarding the commission being appointed by the mayor and bought. Seems to be an out of place complaint as if they've been steamrolled by the city time after time? 

Yeah, German Village arguably has, by far, the least amount of new development of any urban neighborhood in the city, not only because of the historic status, but because there is little developable land.  What development they have gotten has matched the neighborhood well, just like this hotel proposal would. These people are smoking crack if they believe the city is working against then.  

Edited by jonoh81

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Can this still be built? I need it to be so these people can feel the hate in their hearts bubble over. I will make a new Facebook account after  leaving it 10 years ago just for the meltdowns.

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German Village Hotel Proposal Shrinks

 

GVHotel-Jan2019-1150x550.png

 

The German Village Commission will soon weigh in on yet another revision of a proposal to build a boutique hotel at the corner of Livingston and City Park avenues.

 

The latest plan calls for the new building to top out at 55 feet in height, about seven feet shorter than a proposal that was brought before the commission in October. That proposal also called for renovating a barn-shaped building, at 485 City Park Ave., that is now proposed for demolition (the small building that faces the street, however, at 489 City Park Ave., would still be preserved).

 

As in previous proposals, most of the new hotel would sit on land that currently holds a surface parking lot and a one-story office building (at 31-35 E. Livingston Ave.), which would be demolished.

 

More below:

https://www.columbusunderground.com/german-village-hotel-proposal-shrinks-bw1


"You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers

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As a resident of German Village, I was completely fine with the pervious concept.  If these accommodations help change the resident's and commission' s view, I am all for it. The corner that the project would sit on is nothing but parking lots and run down buildings. I know there are some disadvantages of losing those lots, but the overall impact would be greater for Livingston Ave. and the edge of German Village. 

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4 minutes ago, capitalkid1991 said:

As a resident of German Village, I was completely fine with the pervious concept.  If these accommodations help change the resident's and commission' s view, I am all for it. The corner that the project would sit on is nothing but parking lots and run down buildings. I know there are some disadvantages of losing those lots, but the overall impact would be greater for Livingston Ave. and the edge of German Village. 

 

They need people like you who live there to attend the meetings and show some sanity.

 

But I fully expect a coordinated and scripted assault on anything and everything proposed at the meeting, though.

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3 hours ago, Zyrokai said:

 

They need people like you who live there to attend the meetings and show some sanity.

 

But I fully expect a coordinated and scripted assault on anything and everything proposed at the meeting, though.

 

Yeah, it's not really about the height, it being a hotel or having some glass. They are just against development.  I wish they would just take it directly to the city.

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9 hours ago, jonoh81 said:

 

Yeah, it's not really about the height, it being a hotel or having some glass. They are just against development.  I wish they would just take it directly to the city.

 

https://www.bizjournals.com/columbus/news/2020/01/07/german-village-hotel-halted-again-on-height.html

 

As expected.  They're trying to make this into a strict interpretation of the existing code, but that's pure BS.  It's a classic example of extreme NIMBYism.  The "fears" are vastly disproportionate to any supposed threat.  

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That 35' limit is absolute absurd on Livingston. These people are an absolute joke. Maybe they should rent a bus and all travel to historic neighborhoods in Chicago and see how you can have 1800s buildings and new buildings not ruin a character of a neighborhood. They would literally die if they saw how much more historically significant neighborhoods in the US handle things like this. 

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Most neighborhoods should have hotels. It's a very late 20th century thing for hotels to be in the CBD, near the local convention center, by the airport and on the outerbelt only.

Edited by GCrites80s
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Maybe just slap the words "historic" and "bed and breakfast" in the mix and the elitists  in this particular bubble of town will warm up to this project?  (heavy sarcasm btw)

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12 hours ago, NightNectar said:

Wow I get heated just reading the article. These residents are nuts... bypass the commission and go to the city. 

 

The developers can't go to the city until a formal vote is taken by the commission, which they haven't asked for yet. We know how a vote will go so I am not sure why they haven't just pushed it so they can formally appeal to the city and the commission appeals board. Once it gets to the appeals board it becomes a much more even playing field, the appeals commission has shown hesitancy to go against the neighborhood commissions... but... they have and will with the right arguments and logic because it is a more diverse/unbiased panel. 

 

Between German Village and Grandview right now, the people in this city seem to forget they live in a city. 

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13 hours ago, NightNectar said:

Wow I get heated just reading the article. These residents are nuts... bypass the commission and go to the city. 

The article also said the developer is going to redesign again and try to go shorter.

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Honestly, they should just propose a 2 story brick house B&B, get it approved then just build the original design. Apparently there aren't any repurcussions if you build to a different design in this city anyway. Worst case they have to blame it on a mix-up and paint a mural. 

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5 hours ago, DevolsDance said:

Between German Village and Grandview right now, the people in this city seem to forget they live in a city. 

 

 

Uh oh. What happened in Grandview that I missed?

 

 

Edit: Never mind. Yeesh!

Edited by Zyrokai

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(Cross-posted from the Columbus Public Schools thread)

 

Here's something to get everyone's minds off the German Village hotel controversy:

 

https://www.dispatch.com/news/20200107/5-vacant-columbus-school-buildings-to-be-sold

  • Beck Elementary School at 387 E. Beck Street is the most valuable of the group, appraised at $1.67 million in January 2019 by the Franklin County auditor’s office.  The 136-year-old building in the Schumacher Place neighborhood, near German Village, closed in 2017.  Since its closure, Columbus Landmarks has touted its importance by placing it on its “most endangered sites” list in 2018 and 2019.

Here's a view of Beck Elementary School from the corner of Beck and Lathrop - showing the intact historic form of the structure:

49374429053_e2614d0057_b_d.jpg

 

Here's a view from Beck and Briggs - showing a modern wing added to the historic structure:

49375084077_afbe51d001_b_d.jpg

 

Here's an aerial of the property block showing the historic structure and the modern additions:

49374425048_2997229888_b_d.jpg

 

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This isn't a construction post about German Village - but it does deal with a project that was previously posted here - the renovation of the original Max & Erma's building into a variety of new uses.  One of those new uses was Wunderbar, a bar/restaurant on the ground floor.

 

Apparently neighbors have complained about the activity there and that the entertainment at the location - live music, karaoke and trivia nights, and recently drag bingo and a drag review - violated Wunderbar's zoning approval.  On Jan. 28, the city’s code enforcement office issued a violation against Wunderbar for operating a cabaret within 500 feet of a public or parochial school or a religious facility — in this case, St. Mary at 684 S. 3rd St., and the adjacent school:

 

https://www.thisweeknews.com/news/20200211/neighbors-complain-about-events-such-as-drag-shows-at-wunderbar-in-german-village

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3 hours ago, Columbo said:

This isn't a construction post about German Village - but it does deal with a project that was previously posted here - the renovation of the original Max & Erma's building into a variety of new uses.  One of those new uses was Wunderbar, a bar/restaurant on the ground floor.

 

Apparently neighbors have complained about the activity there and that the entertainment at the location - live music, karaoke and trivia nights, and recently drag bingo and a drag review - violated Wunderbar's zoning approval.  On Jan. 28, the city’s code enforcement office issued a violation against Wunderbar for operating a cabaret within 500 feet of a public or parochial school or a religious facility — in this case, St. Mary at 684 S. 3rd St., and the adjacent school:

 

https://www.thisweeknews.com/news/20200211/neighbors-complain-about-events-such-as-drag-shows-at-wunderbar-in-german-village

 

lol, wait... there's a code against cabaret near a school? 🤣

 

Also, yeah, the German Village busybodies are definitely out in force, and it's probably focused specifically on the drag stuff.  Let's not kid ourselves about that.

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2 hours ago, jonoh81 said:

 

lol, wait... there's a code against cabaret near a school? 🤣

 

Also, yeah, the German Village busybodies are definitely out in force, and it's probably focused specifically on the drag stuff.  Let's not kid ourselves about that.

 

My unverified guess is it's an old law that has become outdated. Probably came about in the times of outlawing dancing, alcohol, etc and people were too lazy to take it off the books.  Cabarets are interpreted to mean "musical entertainment, singing, dancing or other form of amusement". NYC didn't repeal their cabernet laws until 2017 and they still have laws regulating establishments that allow dancing.... in 2020.... 🤦‍♂️

Edited by DTCL11

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https://columbus.legistar.com/LegislationDetail.aspx?ID=1452868&GUID=B6612FD3-3C14-4E6A-BD6E-74B3A159AD26&Options=ID|Text|&Search=CV13-021

 

https://library.municode.com/oh/columbus/codes/code_of_ordinances?nodeId=TIT33ZOCO_CH3303DE_3303.05LEE

 

Quote

"Eating and drinking establishment" means a, restaurant, bar, tavern, cabaret, fast-food business, nightclub, pub, dining room, dinner theater, and similar uses.

 

Their location already has a variance to permit an "eating and drinking establishment" at their location.

 

So if we're taking this literally and not in a "GV residents don't want a drag show or two in their neighborhood" type of way, it seems Wunderbar went wrong when they had "performers dance, sing, or engage in plays for patrons."  This triggered the antiquated "cabaret" ordinance or whatever.  The property manager even notes they may request a zoning variance - which is something they should have just done from the start.

 

On the ordinance violation, it seems like Wunderbar just didn't do basic research on what they needed to operate it legally and GV got super strict about it.  As for the neighbors who don't like the noise or whatnot in the area...don't live in one of the densest urban areas of the city that is specifically designed to have shops, restaruants, and other businesses interspersed in the community.  I haven't been, but from reading the article it sounds like Wunderbar typically shuts down their shows by 11 pm Thursdays-Saturdays - which I believe would be in compliance with any noise ordinances.

 

*Note: I'm not a lawyer, just friends with many.


Very Stable Genius

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6 minutes ago, DarkandStormy said:

https://columbus.legistar.com/LegislationDetail.aspx?ID=1452868&GUID=B6612FD3-3C14-4E6A-BD6E-74B3A159AD26&Options=ID|Text|&Search=CV13-021

 

https://library.municode.com/oh/columbus/codes/code_of_ordinances?nodeId=TIT33ZOCO_CH3303DE_3303.05LEE

 

"Eating and drinking establishment" means a, restaurant, bar, tavern, cabaret, fast-food business, nightclub, pub, dining room, dinner theater, and similar uses.

 

Their location already has a variance to permit an "eating and drinking establishment" at their location.

 

So if we're taking this literally and not in a "GV residents don't want a drag show or two in their neighborhood" type of way, it seems Wunderbar went wrong when they had "performers dance, sing, or engage in plays for patrons."  This triggered the antiquated "cabaret" ordinance or whatever.  The property manager even notes they may request a zoning variance - which is something they should have just done from the start.

 

On the ordinance violation, it seems like Wunderbar just didn't do basic research on what they needed to operate it legally and GV got super strict about it.  As for the neighbors who don't like the noise or whatnot in the area...don't live in one of the densest urban areas of the city that is specifically designed to have shops, restaruants, and other businesses interspersed in the community.  I haven't been, but from reading the article it sounds like Wunderbar typically shuts down their shows by 11 pm Thursdays-Saturdays - which I believe would be in compliance with any noise ordinances.

 

*Note: I'm not a lawyer, just friends with many.

 

Doesn't the variance permitting an "eating and drinking establishment" mean the "cabaret" use is already permitted? Cabaret is included in the definition of an "eating and drinking establishment" in city code.

 

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An end to the Wunderbar cabaret story:

 

From https://www.thisweeknews.com/news/20200217/wunderbar-will-end-live-entertainment-after-complaints

 

Quote

Wunderbar in German Village ends all live entertainment to comply with the city zoning code.  The bar was operating a “cabaret” within 500 feet of St. Mary Catholic Church and a parochial school.

 

The people who run Wunderbar in German Village have decided to end all live entertainment there, including live music and drag shows, because of a city zoning violation.  “We plan on complying with the city of Columbus zoning infraction,” property manager Evan Fracasso said. “We do not plan on going after any variances at this time.”

 

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