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Columbus: German Village / Schumacher Place Developments and News

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That 35' limit is absolute absurd on Livingston. These people are an absolute joke. Maybe they should rent a bus and all travel to historic neighborhoods in Chicago and see how you can have 1800s buildings and new buildings not ruin a character of a neighborhood. They would literally die if they saw how much more historically significant neighborhoods in the US handle things like this. 

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Most neighborhoods should have hotels. It's a very late 20th century thing for hotels to be in the CBD, near the local convention center, by the airport and on the outerbelt only.

Edited by GCrites80s
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Maybe just slap the words "historic" and "bed and breakfast" in the mix and the elitists  in this particular bubble of town will warm up to this project?  (heavy sarcasm btw)

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12 hours ago, NightNectar said:

Wow I get heated just reading the article. These residents are nuts... bypass the commission and go to the city. 

 

The developers can't go to the city until a formal vote is taken by the commission, which they haven't asked for yet. We know how a vote will go so I am not sure why they haven't just pushed it so they can formally appeal to the city and the commission appeals board. Once it gets to the appeals board it becomes a much more even playing field, the appeals commission has shown hesitancy to go against the neighborhood commissions... but... they have and will with the right arguments and logic because it is a more diverse/unbiased panel. 

 

Between German Village and Grandview right now, the people in this city seem to forget they live in a city. 

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13 hours ago, NightNectar said:

Wow I get heated just reading the article. These residents are nuts... bypass the commission and go to the city. 

The article also said the developer is going to redesign again and try to go shorter.

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Honestly, they should just propose a 2 story brick house B&B, get it approved then just build the original design. Apparently there aren't any repurcussions if you build to a different design in this city anyway. Worst case they have to blame it on a mix-up and paint a mural. 

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5 hours ago, DevolsDance said:

Between German Village and Grandview right now, the people in this city seem to forget they live in a city. 

 

 

Uh oh. What happened in Grandview that I missed?

 

 

Edit: Never mind. Yeesh!

Edited by Zyrokai

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(Cross-posted from the Columbus Public Schools thread)

 

Here's something to get everyone's minds off the German Village hotel controversy:

 

https://www.dispatch.com/news/20200107/5-vacant-columbus-school-buildings-to-be-sold

  • Beck Elementary School at 387 E. Beck Street is the most valuable of the group, appraised at $1.67 million in January 2019 by the Franklin County auditor’s office.  The 136-year-old building in the Schumacher Place neighborhood, near German Village, closed in 2017.  Since its closure, Columbus Landmarks has touted its importance by placing it on its “most endangered sites” list in 2018 and 2019.

Here's a view of Beck Elementary School from the corner of Beck and Lathrop - showing the intact historic form of the structure:

49374429053_e2614d0057_b_d.jpg

 

Here's a view from Beck and Briggs - showing a modern wing added to the historic structure:

49375084077_afbe51d001_b_d.jpg

 

Here's an aerial of the property block showing the historic structure and the modern additions:

49374425048_2997229888_b_d.jpg

 

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This isn't a construction post about German Village - but it does deal with a project that was previously posted here - the renovation of the original Max & Erma's building into a variety of new uses.  One of those new uses was Wunderbar, a bar/restaurant on the ground floor.

 

Apparently neighbors have complained about the activity there and that the entertainment at the location - live music, karaoke and trivia nights, and recently drag bingo and a drag review - violated Wunderbar's zoning approval.  On Jan. 28, the city’s code enforcement office issued a violation against Wunderbar for operating a cabaret within 500 feet of a public or parochial school or a religious facility — in this case, St. Mary at 684 S. 3rd St., and the adjacent school:

 

https://www.thisweeknews.com/news/20200211/neighbors-complain-about-events-such-as-drag-shows-at-wunderbar-in-german-village

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^^^I have a lot of things I'd like to say but......I think it is best to keep my mouth shut on this one 🤐

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3 hours ago, Columbo said:

This isn't a construction post about German Village - but it does deal with a project that was previously posted here - the renovation of the original Max & Erma's building into a variety of new uses.  One of those new uses was Wunderbar, a bar/restaurant on the ground floor.

 

Apparently neighbors have complained about the activity there and that the entertainment at the location - live music, karaoke and trivia nights, and recently drag bingo and a drag review - violated Wunderbar's zoning approval.  On Jan. 28, the city’s code enforcement office issued a violation against Wunderbar for operating a cabaret within 500 feet of a public or parochial school or a religious facility — in this case, St. Mary at 684 S. 3rd St., and the adjacent school:

 

https://www.thisweeknews.com/news/20200211/neighbors-complain-about-events-such-as-drag-shows-at-wunderbar-in-german-village

 

lol, wait... there's a code against cabaret near a school? 🤣

 

Also, yeah, the German Village busybodies are definitely out in force, and it's probably focused specifically on the drag stuff.  Let's not kid ourselves about that.

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2 hours ago, jonoh81 said:

 

lol, wait... there's a code against cabaret near a school? 🤣

 

Also, yeah, the German Village busybodies are definitely out in force, and it's probably focused specifically on the drag stuff.  Let's not kid ourselves about that.

 

My unverified guess is it's an old law that has become outdated. Probably came about in the times of outlawing dancing, alcohol, etc and people were too lazy to take it off the books.  Cabarets are interpreted to mean "musical entertainment, singing, dancing or other form of amusement". NYC didn't repeal their cabernet laws until 2017 and they still have laws regulating establishments that allow dancing.... in 2020.... 🤦‍♂️

Edited by DTCL11

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https://columbus.legistar.com/LegislationDetail.aspx?ID=1452868&GUID=B6612FD3-3C14-4E6A-BD6E-74B3A159AD26&Options=ID|Text|&Search=CV13-021

 

https://library.municode.com/oh/columbus/codes/code_of_ordinances?nodeId=TIT33ZOCO_CH3303DE_3303.05LEE

 

Quote

"Eating and drinking establishment" means a, restaurant, bar, tavern, cabaret, fast-food business, nightclub, pub, dining room, dinner theater, and similar uses.

 

Their location already has a variance to permit an "eating and drinking establishment" at their location.

 

So if we're taking this literally and not in a "GV residents don't want a drag show or two in their neighborhood" type of way, it seems Wunderbar went wrong when they had "performers dance, sing, or engage in plays for patrons."  This triggered the antiquated "cabaret" ordinance or whatever.  The property manager even notes they may request a zoning variance - which is something they should have just done from the start.

 

On the ordinance violation, it seems like Wunderbar just didn't do basic research on what they needed to operate it legally and GV got super strict about it.  As for the neighbors who don't like the noise or whatnot in the area...don't live in one of the densest urban areas of the city that is specifically designed to have shops, restaruants, and other businesses interspersed in the community.  I haven't been, but from reading the article it sounds like Wunderbar typically shuts down their shows by 11 pm Thursdays-Saturdays - which I believe would be in compliance with any noise ordinances.

 

*Note: I'm not a lawyer, just friends with many.


Very Stable Genius

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6 minutes ago, DarkandStormy said:

https://columbus.legistar.com/LegislationDetail.aspx?ID=1452868&GUID=B6612FD3-3C14-4E6A-BD6E-74B3A159AD26&Options=ID|Text|&Search=CV13-021

 

https://library.municode.com/oh/columbus/codes/code_of_ordinances?nodeId=TIT33ZOCO_CH3303DE_3303.05LEE

 

"Eating and drinking establishment" means a, restaurant, bar, tavern, cabaret, fast-food business, nightclub, pub, dining room, dinner theater, and similar uses.

 

Their location already has a variance to permit an "eating and drinking establishment" at their location.

 

So if we're taking this literally and not in a "GV residents don't want a drag show or two in their neighborhood" type of way, it seems Wunderbar went wrong when they had "performers dance, sing, or engage in plays for patrons."  This triggered the antiquated "cabaret" ordinance or whatever.  The property manager even notes they may request a zoning variance - which is something they should have just done from the start.

 

On the ordinance violation, it seems like Wunderbar just didn't do basic research on what they needed to operate it legally and GV got super strict about it.  As for the neighbors who don't like the noise or whatnot in the area...don't live in one of the densest urban areas of the city that is specifically designed to have shops, restaruants, and other businesses interspersed in the community.  I haven't been, but from reading the article it sounds like Wunderbar typically shuts down their shows by 11 pm Thursdays-Saturdays - which I believe would be in compliance with any noise ordinances.

 

*Note: I'm not a lawyer, just friends with many.

 

Doesn't the variance permitting an "eating and drinking establishment" mean the "cabaret" use is already permitted? Cabaret is included in the definition of an "eating and drinking establishment" in city code.

 

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An end to the Wunderbar cabaret story:

 

From https://www.thisweeknews.com/news/20200217/wunderbar-will-end-live-entertainment-after-complaints

 

Quote

Wunderbar in German Village ends all live entertainment to comply with the city zoning code.  The bar was operating a “cabaret” within 500 feet of St. Mary Catholic Church and a parochial school.

 

The people who run Wunderbar in German Village have decided to end all live entertainment there, including live music and drag shows, because of a city zoning violation.  “We plan on complying with the city of Columbus zoning infraction,” property manager Evan Fracasso said. “We do not plan on going after any variances at this time.”

 

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Pizzuti wants to make the Giant Eagle a mixed-use property. I hope they go with a Market District Express like in Bexley. Whatever they do should be better than the strange store that is there now.

 

Concepts to be presented for Whittier Street Giant Eagle

 

"The owner of the Giant Eagle on Whittier Street near German Village plans to present concepts for the property Tuesday at the Parsons Avenue library. Representatives of the owner, the Pizzuti Companies, stressed that the Giant Eagle is still the tenant but that it’s 'important to share conceptual alternative uses for this site.'"

 

https://www.dispatch.com/business/20200302/concepts-to-be-presented-for-whittier-street-giant-eagle

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That seemingly came out of nowhere. What commission has formal review of it? I honestly can't see any scenario where anything substantive will get approved. I want it to but I fear GV will put up a nasty fight. 

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2 hours ago, DTCL11 said:

That seemingly came out of nowhere. What commission has formal review of it? I honestly can't see any scenario where anything substantive will get approved. I want it to but I fear GV will put up a nasty fight. 

Well, at least there will be one GV resident in favor.  According to the article:

 

Quote

Pizzuti President Joel Pizzuti lives in nearby German Village.

 

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2 hours ago, DTCL11 said:

That seemingly came out of nowhere. What commission has formal review of it? I honestly can't see any scenario where anything substantive will get approved. I want it to but I fear GV will put up a nasty fight. 

 

I posted some aerial views of the Giant Eagle property back when news of Pizzuti's purchase broke in 2017: https://forum.urbanohio.com/topic/1167-columbus-german-village-schumacher-place-developments-and-news/page/5/?tab=comments#comment-794286

 

Pablo replied at that time that the GE property lies just outside the GV boundary:

 

On 10/9/2017 at 3:42 PM, Pablo said:

^I believe the GE site is just outside the German Village Commission limits - its within the boundaries of the Schumacher Place Civic Association which is part of the Columbus Southside Area Commission.

 

 

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This could get fun. And those aerials really put the massive size of the property in context. I've never realized how large it is all the times I've been down there. So much potential for a thoughtful development, with a touch of spite if the right people get involved. A rooftop bar 12 stories up overlooking GV and Schiller Park sounds like a wonderful start. Make sure it includes a hotel with glass and steel 😂 (not that I think that's what should actually go there but.... )

 

Edit: I had some more free time this evening to dig a bit deeper. Not only does GE sit just outside GVC territory.... it seems to go around the GE... this is the map of the commission territory from Columbus.gov

 

 

Screenshot_20200302-202009_Drive.jpg

Edited by DTCL11
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^It's also the site of the very first OSU home football game - it used to be Recreation Park. Perhaps that is why is was excluded from German Village - there were never any historic homes on the site.

https://www.elevenwarriors.com/ohio-state-athletics/2018/02/90991/saturday-spotlight-a-historical-look-back-at-ohio-states-first-football-team

 

image.png.fd5c04ba1ddd07e642b4171f37c6c9d9.png

Edited by Pablo
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Interesting! And perhaps the new development can do more to pay homage for it. Could be an interesting opportunity for perhaps a parklet with a sculpture or a mural that makes it a photo opportunity for buckeye fans. Anything is better than this I suppose.....

 

 

Screenshot_20200303-094825_Maps.jpg

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German Village hotel proposal stonewalled again

 

mcgown-hotel-shortened*750xx1751-985-3-0

 

Another attempt to build a new hotel in German Village has been shot down. The rejected proposal was the fifth redesign of a hotel on the site since the concept was first presented by a different development team two years ago.

 

More below:

https://www.bizjournals.com/columbus/news/2020/03/03/german-village-hotel-proposalstonewalled-again.html


"You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers

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14 minutes ago, ColDayMan said:

German Village hotel proposal stonewalled again

 

mcgown-hotel-shortened*750xx1751-985-3-0

 

Another attempt to build a new hotel in German Village has been shot down. The rejected proposal was the fifth redesign of a hotel on the site since the concept was first presented by a different development team two years ago.

 

More below:

https://www.bizjournals.com/columbus/news/2020/03/03/german-village-hotel-proposalstonewalled-again.html

They need to just take it straight to the city. 

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16 minutes ago, ColDayMan said:

German Village hotel proposal stonewalled again

 

mcgown-hotel-shortened*750xx1751-985-3-0

 

Another attempt to build a new hotel in German Village has been shot down. The rejected proposal was the fifth redesign of a hotel on the site since the concept was first presented by a different development team two years ago.

 

More below:

https://www.bizjournals.com/columbus/news/2020/03/03/german-village-hotel-proposalstonewalled-again.html

I hope they build a 750 foot tower on the Giant Eagle site just outside of GV commission territory.

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A dozen neighbors spoke against the project Tuesday but one was in favor. The developer said there's been more support among those living closest to the proposal.

 

So now we're dealing with NITBY's. Frankly, they should petition support among the immediate neighbors and use that to bolster an appeal to the city. 5 freaking designs. That's a lot of patience. Kudos to them for that at least. 

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That's insane. Someone should ask them WHAT is acceptable there. Nothing? Is nothing the only acceptable thing to be built here?

 

Take it to the city.

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1 hour ago, Zyrokai said:

That's insane. Someone should ask them WHAT is acceptable there. Nothing? Is nothing the only acceptable thing to be built here?

 

Take it to the city.

 

They want single family homes and *maybe* 2 story retail to identically match the next block over. Which is fine. Probably could have worked years ago. But due to cost of land, construction costs, etc etc, that kind of small project isnt financially feasible. But they don't care about that. 

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Now that a vote has officially been taken by the GVC, I imagine the developer will take it to the appeals commission. If the developer can plead the right case for the panel (ROI and architectural quality), I think there is a chance this could be overturned and allowed to proceed. It is incredibly rare an overturn happens but based on the property location, the fact no historic demolitions are part of the plan, and a documented willingness by the developer to work with the neighborhood, I can see the review panel being more favorable towards the project.

 

 

Edited by DevolsDance
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On 3/4/2020 at 8:52 AM, DevolsDance said:

Now that a vote has officially been taken by the GVC, I imagine the developer will take it to the appeals commission. If the developer can plead the right case for the panel (ROI and architectural quality), I think there is a chance this could be overturned and allowed to proceed. It is incredibly rare an overturn happens but based on the property location, the fact no historic demolitions are part of the plan, and a documented willingness by the developer to work with the neighborhood, I can see the review panel being more favorable towards the project.

 

 

It seems like the developer does intend to take this to the appeals commission eventually.  According to CBF, the GVC gets one more vote before that happens:

 

Undeterred by commission rejection, German Village hotel developer vows to keep trying 

One day after the German Village Commission rejected his proposal for the McGown Hotel at 31-35 E. Livingston Ave., Casey said he isn't finished yet with the project, and intends to return to the commission to have the project voted on again.

 

...

 

The developer is unlikely to succeed before the German Village Commission; its members voted 6-1 to block the variances needed for the development's 52-foot height, which they say is out of place for the neighborhood whose homes and small buildings average 29 to 35 feet in two and three stories. Casey has said the hotel isn't financially feasible at that size.

 

A down-vote on Casey's next attempt to land commission approval would necessitate a move to the Board of Commission Appeals if the developer wants to move forward.

 

"We’ve committed a great deal of resource and energy to a project we’re proud of, all we can do now is have faith in the process," Casey said.

 

More here: https://www.bizjournals.com/columbus/news/2020/03/05/undeterred-by-commission-rejection-german-village.html?iana=hpmvp_colum_news_headline

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Is it possible that the appeals commission could approve one of the larger, earlier proposals if that happens?

Edited by TH3BUDDHA

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54 minutes ago, TH3BUDDHA said:

Is it possible that the appeals commission could approve one of the larger, earlier proposals if that happens?

That would be great. I went to the Facebook page for the project and said they should just take it to the city, the guy commented that they are planning on it. 

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1 hour ago, TH3BUDDHA said:

Is it possible that the appeals commission could approve one of the larger, earlier proposals if that happens?

 

I believe you can only appeal the official design that was submitted and voted on, any changes will restart the process. However, the design presented and was voted upon this week was actually the 5-story version on the plan capping at 55' tall, not the shorter 42' tall version presented in January to try and win over the residents.

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15 minutes ago, DevolsDance said:

 

I believe you can only appeal the official design that was submitted and voted on, any changes will restart the process. However, the design presented and was voted upon this week was actually the 5-story version on the plan capping at 55' tall, not the shorter 42' tall version presented in January to try and win over the residents.

 

Wow. Even seven feet taller than the three story houses was too tall? What a bunch of morons. You'd think you'd want a buffer like this along a road like Livingston.

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7 minutes ago, aderwent said:

 

Wow. Even seven feet taller than the three story houses was too tall? What a bunch of morons. You'd think you'd want a buffer like this along a road like Livingston.


Well it wasn't just the height they were against, they also didn't like that "It looks like those modern skyscrapers they're building all over the Short North and ruining the area" and that "Hotels are not appropriate for German Village". Yeah, the residents and commissioners are THAT level of NIMBY with this project.

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19 minutes ago, DevolsDance said:


Well it wasn't just the height they were against, they also didn't like that "It looks like those modern skyscrapers they're building all over the Short North and ruining the area" and that "Hotels are not appropriate for German Village". Yeah, the residents and commissioners are THAT level of NIMBY with this project.

 

Why do only anti-development people run for these commissions?  There seem to be very few development commissions in the city that not only are generally favorable to development, but encourage development to push the envelope.  Instead, most of full of suburban-minded buzzkills that clap themselves on the back for helping to make Columbus housing ever more unaffordable.

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6 minutes ago, GCrites80s said:

Unemployment is high in the anti-development community. 

 

Unemployment, or retirement?

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I was going to go with home ownership age in these communities and income. Along the lines of Gcrites it is who has the time to participate. I would love to for Old North but I travel too much for work to participate so I just email my thoughts each time but could not hold a spot on the commission until i make a career change. 

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1 hour ago, jonoh81 said:

 

Why do only anti-development people run for these commissions?  There seem to be very few development commissions in the city that not only are generally favorable to development, but encourage development to push the envelope.  Instead, most of full of suburban-minded buzzkills that clap themselves on the back for helping to make Columbus housing ever more unaffordable.

 

I think you answered your own question. Their own property values go up.

Edited by Zyrokai

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Pizzuti Cos. held their first community meeting about the future of the Giant Eagle site at 280 E. Whittier Street on Tuesday night.  The Business First article is only fully viewable for subscribers.  So here my synopsis/excerpt of it:

 


Here's how Pizzuti Cos. might transform the Giant Eagle near German Village 

 

The owner of the Whittier Street Giant Eagle is thinking about density as it eyes redevelopment of the site.  In the first community meeting on the future of the Giant Eagle at 280 E. Whittier St.,  the developer - Pizzuti Cos. - told attendees there are no hard plans in place for what to do with the 30,000-square-foot store, but it is working on the early stages of a redevelopment plan.

 

The first idea tossed out was for a mixed-use development in the four-story range, which the developer said could host as many as 325 housing units, Curtis Davis, zoning chair of the South Side Area Commission, said.  The reception to the height and density was chilly though, and neighbors were concerned about parking.  The developer posited that an underground garage might be possible there.

 

Pizzuti bought the building and its 2.5-acre site for $5.35 million in October 2017.  The building was built in 1950 and used to be a Big Bear that was part of a portfolio of stores that became Giant Eagles after Big Bear parent Penn Traffic declared bankruptcy.  "At this time," Pizzuti spokeswoman Laurie Marquart said in an email, Giant Eagle "has rights under their existing lease to maintain their tenancy at this site."

 

At Tuesday's meeting, there was some pushback from residents who didn't want to see a four-story development there, and who want to see a grocery store remain on the ground floor of the building, Davis said.  An alternative retailer, namely a Trader Joe's, was requested if the Giant Eagle were to shutter. ... More public meetings are likely in the next 30 to 45 days and the developer wants to keep the conversation going, Davis said.  Its plans would ultimately need approvals from either the Board of Zoning Adjustment or Columbus City Council depending on what is finally proposed.

 

MORE:  https://www.bizjournals.com/columbus/news/2020/03/04/heres-how-pizzuti-cos-might-transform-the-giant.html

 


The Dispatch also had an article about the Tuesday community meeting - written in the colorful stylings of longtime reporter Mark Ferenchik.  But the Dispatch article is fully viewable at ThisWeekNews.  So I'll just provide the link to this article:

 

https://www.thisweeknews.com/news/20200304/concepts-presented-for-whittier-street-giant-eagle-near-german-village

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Another said any development should not be more than 2 stories tall. And resident Michael Ottinger said, “I will do anything in my power to stop what they shared.”

 

Sounds like it went exactly as well as we would have thought... 

 

'We want a walkable neighborhood... but we are super concerned about parking... and don't want any added density to make it MORE walkable. That's preposterous. Absolutely NO HEIGHT. Oh. And make it a Trader Joe's (as if that's the developers choice)'

 

 

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2 hours ago, DTCL11 said:

 

Sounds like it went exactly as well as we would have thought... 

 

'We want a walkable neighborhood... but we are super concerned about parking... and don't want any added density to make it MORE walkable. That's preposterous. Absolutely NO HEIGHT. Oh. And make it a Trader Joe's (as if that's the developers choice)'

 

 

 

None of these residents have any grasp of how development works and the commissions, instead of explaining or discussing, just rally behind the residents with pitchforks. It has become one of the most maddening and frustrating things to repeatedly witness. 

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22 hours ago, Zyrokai said:

 

I think you answered your own question. Their own property values go up.

 

Yeah, but development tends to make them go up more.  It's not like the Short North's property values have cratered since 2010.  

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3 hours ago, aderwent said:

When is the city going to overhaul its zoning?

 

I've heard rumors and such here and there, but there doesn't seem to be any significant push for it with city leadership.  

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