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Cleveland / Lakewood: The Edge Developments

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If this lot was zoned with a minimum height requirement of, say, 4 stories for sh*ts and giggles.  How long before a 4+ building is built there?

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So why did our leadership cozy up with them?  Grrrrrr.....

 

I don't know about the term cozy up, but the private property owner is willing to make an investment in its property. And as long as that investment doesn't violate any laws, why would the city oppose it? Furthermore, elected officials don't get into the detail of design issues. That's why we have planning and landmark commissions. Even so, this is a private property owner making a private investment without public funds. So there's little that the city could do to cause major changes to the design of the development.

 

This is on the private owner who is unwilling to embrace or simply unfamiliar with more pedestrian-friendly designs and the benefits of embracing them. But you can't force someone to like an architectural concept, even though I wish a developer would recognize the special geographic circumstances of this site which differentiates it from most of the suburban locations where Carnegie develops projects. But my wishes nor any Cleveland public officials matter little to a private developer who has site control.

 

"Unwilling to Embrace" and "Site control"

 

That's the essence of the matter with this parcel and I'd also hazard a guess that even if form based zoning was in place on that parcel you would not see the building rise higher than the one next to it, so 2 stories max.

 

 

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A few properties on the south side of Clifton at West 116 have sold (or at least had their sales recorded) in the past week...

 

The parcel at the SW corner of Clifton and West 116th, plus the property south of it on W116 officially sold on May 27, 2015 to:

Katsaros Properties Llc is a new business with offices at 30700 Center Ridge Road, Westlake, OH. However the property tax mailing address is a residential address 26670 Brahms Dr, Westlake, listing to Peter C and Tonya R Katsaros. Peter Katsaros' LinkedIn page describes him as: "Market Growth and Development Consultant Renovation Program Northeast Markets and Pacific Markets Wells Fargo"

 

The next property south on West 116th was sold May 21 by Wells Fargo (that acquired it Jan. 28) to:

 

UX HOLDING LLC owned by YONGJUN PANG whose office is on Payne Avenue in Asiatown.


"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

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They could be a much stronger economic development anchor for this neighborhood which has been struggling for more than a decade...

 

Virginia Marti is located in Lakewood, but this article about its future had an interesting little tidbit:

 

He [Milan Milasinovic] also expects the school will stay at the 20,000-square-foot home it owns on Detroit Avenue in Lakewood given the current real estate climate, although he'd love for the campus to be located in downtown Cleveland one day.

 

I think that would be a fantastic move.  They'd probably have an easier time attracting students to a central location, and Downtown is certainly appealing to creatives and young people.  There's a bunch of smaller buildings that could be renovated for them!

 

Virginia Marti is changing course

June 07, 2015

 

By Timothy Magaw

 

Bold changes are underway at the Virginia Marti College of Art and Design, including a shift in ownership from the Lakewood-based institution's namesake and longtime proprietor.

 

Virginia Marti Veith, now 86, has sold a minority stake of the school she has operated since 1966 to Milan Milasinovic, an experienced fashion industry executive who most recently served as vice president for academic affairs and chief academic officer at New York City's LIM College, a for-profit school focused on the business side of the fashion industry.

 

Terms of the sale were not disclosed. Veith will be active on the college's board of directors, but complete ownership is expected to transfer to Milasinovic — now the school's president — over the next two years.

 

Milasinovic's vision for the school is especially ambitious.

 

http://www.crainscleveland.com/article/20150607/NEWS/306079987/virginia-marti-is-changing-course


"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

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A few properties on the south side of Clifton at West 116 have sold (or at least had their sales recorded) in the past week...

 

The parcel at the SW corner of Clifton and West 116th, plus the property south of it on W116 officially sold on May 27, 2015 to:

Katsaros Properties Llc is a new business with offices at 30700 Center Ridge Road, Westlake, OH. However the property tax mailing address is a residential address 26670 Brahms Dr, Westlake, listing to Peter C and Tonya R Katsaros. Peter Katsaros' LinkedIn page describes him as: "Market Growth and Development Consultant Renovation Program Northeast Markets and Pacific Markets Wells Fargo"

 

Thats just John K.'s brother.  John being the former owner of Twist untill he passed away last year.  His brother took over the property.  I believe these were all Johns parcels.   

 

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I withdraw my prior objections to the conceptual site proposals for the Shoppes on Clifton project. This has a very nice street presence for a single-use (retail) structure....

 

http://www.loopnet.com/Listing/19061670/11604-11636-Clifton-Blvd-Cleveland-OH/

 

19002746818_f77c98875b_b.jpg

 

 

EDIT: Although... I'm surprised the above facade isn't facing the corner of Clifton and West 117th. Instead it's facing the mid-block breezeway. A smaller space -- Dollar Bank -- is facing the corner. Now I'm less enthused. The latest site plan and sales info is at the following link with the plan reposted below....

 

http://www.passovgroup.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/Cleveland-The-Shoppes-on-Clifton.pdf

 

19195149331_6727bf7c18_b.jpg


"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

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Yeah facing 116th makes no sense for this site.  And I hope that second story patio is real, and not some sort of Universal back lot treatment like the Walgreens at 117th/Detroit. 

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I think that streetview rendering above has Clifton on the right side of it, and the breezeway to the left. If so, I think that's very strange. It's like Lucky's doesn't want the max exposure of being on the corner of West 117th and Clifton. I'm sure the developer is thinking about the traffic flow and parking behind the stores, but that's suburban thinking. This isn't a drive-or-die suburb. Many of us walked, biked or took the bus to/from the Giant Eagle that was here. The parking lot behind the old Giant Eagle was never more than half full.


"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

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^ If you move the market to the corner of 117th instead of 116th, then the truck dock ends up either in the middle of the parking lot, or along 117th's sidewalk.  Guess it's going to be less prominent in the current site plan at least.

 

It's kind of unfortunate that Dollar Bank is taking the corner, rather than a cafe/restaurant with some sidewalk seating, or something that generates more traffic than a bank branch.

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^ If you move the market to the corner of 117th instead of 116th, then the truck dock ends up either in the middle of the parking lot, or along 117th's sidewalk.  Guess it's going to be less prominent in the current site plan at least.

 

The old loading dock for Giant Eagle was in the middle of the former strip, but there was no breezeway in the middle of it.

 

It's kind of unfortunate that Dollar Bank is taking the corner, rather than a cafe/restaurant with some sidewalk seating, or something that generates more traffic than a bank branch.

 

Very true. Didn't think about that.


"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

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^ If you move the market to the corner of 117th instead of 116th, then the truck dock ends up either in the middle of the parking lot, or along 117th's sidewalk.  Guess it's going to be less prominent in the current site plan at least.

 

The old loading dock for Giant Eagle was in the middle of the former strip, but there was no breezeway in the middle of it.

 

It's kind of unfortunate that Dollar Bank is taking the corner, rather than a cafe/restaurant with some sidewalk seating, or something that generates more traffic than a bank branch.

 

Very true. Didn't think about that.

 

I guess based on that proposed truck path across the parking lot, they must not get deliveries when there are any cars parked out back...

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I'm happy something is being done.  But this is super suburban.  Agreed that the Dollar Bank is a waste of space.  Not worthy of an area with one of the highest densities between NYC and Chicago. 

 

I don't get it.... :wtf:  Leadership?

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Fifth Church of Christ Scientist at West 117th & Lake in Cleveland may be razed any day for Shoppes on Clifton.

CJPRmx1W8AEaGPh.jpg:large


"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

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I came through this way over the weekend and was surprised at how imposing the church is from the corner there. It was much larger than I expected it to be, and that stone is beautiful. Hopefully the townhouses make good use of it.

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I'm happy something is being done.  But this is super suburban.  Agreed that the Dollar Bank is a waste of space.  Not worthy of an area with one of the highest densities between NYC and Chicago. 

 

I don't get it.... :wtf:  Leadership?

 

Yes.  And I wouldn't be surprised if our "concerned citizen" friends from a few pages back have created an environment so hostile to urbanism that developers saw no point in proposing anything more significant than this.  Imagine the long term effects if locals were to vocally advocate in favor of density...

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I'm happy something is being done.  But this is super suburban.  Agreed that the Dollar Bank is a waste of space.  Not worthy of an area with one of the highest densities between NYC and Chicago. 

 

I don't get it.... :wtf:  Leadership?

 

Yes.  And I wouldn't be surprised if our "concerned citizen" friends from a few pages back have created an environment so hostile to urbanism that developers saw no point in proposing anything more significant than this.  Imagine the long term effects if locals were to vocally advocate in favor of density...

 

Locals did advocate for exactly that "density". 

 

Now how do you force the landowner to do development they don't want to do?  Answer me that practical question and then you will have your answer.

 

I'd love to see a different more dense project there but this has been covered ad nauseam. <beatingdeadhorse.gif>

 

 

 

 

 

 

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^ 327 may be referring to the previous plans which locals opposed. Locals pushed back hard against repurposing the church into a rock-climbing gym because they didn't want a commercial use for that particular location. I even recall some push-back on the townhomes because they created "too much density." I'm sure these comments were just coming from the residents of the single-family ranch homes on Lake which should have never been built in the first place.

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^ 327 may be referring to the previous plans which locals opposed. Locals pushed back hard against repurposing the church into a rock-climbing gym because they didn't want a commercial use for that particular location. I even recall some push-back on the townhomes because they created "too much density." I'm sure these comments were just coming from the residents of the single-family ranch homes on Lake which should have never been built in the first place.

 

More specifically he was referring to the recent opposition to the building of townhouses on Lake Ave between West Blvd and Clifton.  Those residents also fought density, despite the fact the lived within the same block as several 4 story prewar brick apartment buildings contributing to an already dense environment.

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^ 327 may be referring to the previous plans which locals opposed. Locals pushed back hard against repurposing the church into a rock-climbing gym because they didn't want a commercial use for that particular location. I even recall some push-back on the townhomes because they created "too much density." I'm sure these comments were just coming from the residents of the single-family ranch homes on Lake which should have never been built in the first place.

 

More specifically he was referring to the recent opposition to the building of townhouses on Lake Ave between West Blvd and Clifton.  Those residents also fought density, despite the fact the lived within the same block as several 4 story prewar brick apartment buildings contributing to an already dense environment.

 

Thanks for the clarification.

 

I really hope those townhomes on Lake go through.  I believe that was a property line/setback dispute with the one adjoining neighbor over the position of the driveways.

 

 

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Those people living in the ranch homes on the north side of Lake need to realize that *they* are the ones that are out of place, not the townhouses. Just one block west there are plenty of apartment/condo buildings (plus all the density of the Gold Coast). There are even plenty of apartment/condo buildings on Lake to the east as well. I really wish we could just raze that whole block (Lake/W. 115/Edgewater/W. 117) and start over.

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Those people living in the ranch homes on the north side of Lake need to realize that *they* are the ones that are out of place, not the townhouses. Just one block west there are plenty of apartment/condo buildings (plus all the density of the Gold Coast). There are even plenty of apartment/condo buildings on Lake to the east as well. I really wish we could just raze that whole block (Lake/W. 115/Edgewater/W. 117) and start over.

 

Yeah.  Lots of candidates for razing thats for sure.  It would be incredible if we got to the place as a city where homes were regularly bought for their lot value then razed for new construction.

 

 

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Thanks to everyone for clarifying.

 

In most cases here, I'm not criticizing the developers so much as the local policies which tie the developers' hands.

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Thanks to everyone for clarifying.

 

In most cases here, I'm not criticizing the developers so much as the local policies which tie the developers' hands.

 

I also think that we have a dearth of thoughtful, innovative developers in this region, thanks to decades of no projects of this nature.  They are starting to come around now--but I don't think this particular developer is suited to this site.  Their background is suburban retail strips.

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Forest City or Concrete City? Which is it?

 

On the one hand, everyone wants the CLE to be more green, and the other density. The Lakewood side of Edgewater Dr. and Lake Ave. look great densely packed, and there is even enough greenery to satisfy both the density advocates and greenery advocates I would think; on the CLE side many here on UO want all density it seems.

 

The only problem I see with Edgewater Dr. and Lake Ave. on the CLE side is the bland ranch homes. I think the mix of some apt buildings on Lake with the beautiful mansions is a great mix. The only out of place structures are the ranch homes. If they could be torn down and mansions replaced them, both streets would look even more beautiful. The proposed townhomes on the south side of Lake Ave backing up to the shopping center to me is the perfect transition from the single family homes with lawns to the shopping center on Clffton/W. 117th. The proposed townhomes even compliment the ones on the Lakewood side but architecturally are much more beautiful, and the developer is even including the right amount of green space to help the transition from the single family homes on the north side of Lake Ave., to the townhomes, to the shopping center.

 

 

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It is possible to have both. See my section of Clifton at the east end of Lakewood or Lake Avenue west of West Boulevard.


"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

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Mustard Seed Market at Highland Square, Akron - how to build a grocery store in an urban environment http://t.co/HkqW0XcXnz


"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

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^ I agree that that design is much better, but Lucky's is going to have an upstairs patio, no? At least that's what it looks like in the renderings.

 

My understanding is the second floor is a faux treatment.  I hope that is wrong.

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In the rendering, it looks a lot like there will be a patio on the upper level. Either that or they will be placing faux-umbrella patio tables on the roof, which seems like a weird choice to me.

 

epHmrNM.png

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Those people living in the ranch homes on the north side of Lake need to realize that *they* are the ones that are out of place, not the townhouses. Just one block west there are plenty of apartment/condo buildings (plus all the density of the Gold Coast). There are even plenty of apartment/condo buildings on Lake to the east as well. I really wish we could just raze that whole block (Lake/W. 115/Edgewater/W. 117) and start over.

 

Completely disagree. Some of those homes are beautiful. And I think it's good to have diverse neighborhoods. Not every neighborhood should look the same. We need somewhere for big money folks who want HOMES in the city to go. I support building the townhomes on Lake, but the idea of wanting to tear down all of those homes on Lake to make nothing but apartments (as if there aren't apartments directly across the street) is hyperbolic

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CLF5ssYUsAAzawD.jpg:large

 

Last look? Deconstruction looms for Fifth Church of Christ Scientist on #CLE's West Side: http://www.cleveland.com/business/index.ssf/2015/07/last_look_deconstruction_looms.html

 

mjarboe[/member] From my tour of Fifth Church last week, as @CityofCleveland lays groundwork for demolition, salvage. http://t.co/DEUykyAJz6


"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

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WKYC finally catches on.....

 

New grocer planned for Edgewater neighborhood

WKYC Staff, WKYC-TV 8:06 p.m. EDT July 29, 2015

 

CLEVELAND -- Cleveland Councilman Matt Zone announced a new grocery store will be coming to the city on his Facebook page Tuesday.

 

Lucky's Market, a chain out of Boulder, Colo., signed a lease to open up shop near West 117th Street and Clifton Blvd.

 

Lucky's Market is an organic grocer that focuses on local and sustainable items.

 

MORE:

http://www.wkyc.com/story/news/local/cleveland/2015/07/29/new-grocer-planned-for-edgewater-neighborhood/30856167/


"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

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Two items from today's Cudell Snippets e-mailed newsletter......

 

LUCKY'S MARKET SIGNS ON DOTTED LINE

At long last, Carnegie Companies has signed on the dotted line to bring a new market to the Edge District at West 117th and Clifton Boulevard.  The deconstruction professional is working with Brickhaus Partners to inventory parts of the Fifth Church of Christ Scientist that could become a part of the new townhomes to be built on the Lake Avenue portion of the project site.  Stay tuned.

 

DEMOLITION STARTS FOR A PLACE FOR US

Demolition has started on the old, blighted industrial buildings at West 116th and Madison to allow for the new construction of senior housing.  The development will be named A Place For Us and has been championed for years by Linda Krucienko and the LBGT community.  A true transit-oriented development project, it is ideally situated directly across from the Highland Square Rapid Transit Station and will provide easy access for residents  to downtown and the airport.  A Place For Us is being built by NRP, a company that has done many successful projects in northeast Ohio.  A big win win for the community - removal of blighted structures, new senior living options and a new development parcel facing West 117th.  What's not to like?


"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

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Isn't the name "A Place for Us" inherently exclusionary... 

Also, is this more of a transit adjacent development, or transit oriented?  Any renderings?

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Sounds more "transit-adjacent." Lots of folks don't know what TOD is. It's not a noun but an adjective.


"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

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That's more recent and detailed than anything I've seen.


"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

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Isn't the name "A Place for Us" inherently exclusionary... 

Also, is this more of a transit adjacent development, or transit oriented?  Any renderings?

"A Place for Us and LGBT housing does not intend to exclude anyone, but rather provide a unique

housing opportunity for an aging population that is often lacking close family relationships and

suffering from isolation."

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I wonder where that station-area graphic came from (below--I got rid of the arrow in Photoshop)? It looks like it's from the joint Cleveland-Lakewood West 117th development masterplan -- except the buildings in A Place For Us development look like the one detailed in their brochure. What I like about that station-area graphic is that the NW corner of Madison-West 117th and the NE corner of Berea-West 117th is more pedestrian-friendly. It always frustrates me as I head east on Madison in Lakewood and the density decreases as you get close to the rail station. Bizarre....

 

20185484651_185182046e_b.jpg


"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

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Here's the demolition that's started for A Place For Us housing at the West 117th Rapid station. Fence is up around the buildings and properties to be cleared....

 

The site is in the distance. You can see two brick smokestacks that are part of the buildings to be demolished. The two smokestacks are seen in another photo, below:

CLQ8MqaUMAAR4tQ.jpg:large

 

This residential over commercial strip along Madison will not be demolished, contrary to earlier plans. The GCRTA rail station is behind me:

CLfkBwVUcAImWp7.jpg:large

 

Building to the left to remain. Building to the right to be demolished:

CLfkCBPUEAUO2B7.jpg:large

 

CLcOm09VAAAFU1o.jpg:large

 

Views along West 116th:

CLcOnPSUAAAlSES.jpg:large

 

CLcOniwUMAERsGc.jpg:large

 

CLfkCN4UcAAmh4f.jpg:large

 

CLcOnxtUwAAZHC9.jpg:large

 

View from along West 117th. Building at center is being gutted prior to demolition. Building at right is the backside of the residential-over-commercial strip along Madison:

CLfkBUwVAAAqIwl.jpg:large


"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

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Growing up in the neighborhood, I always liked those buildings and it's a little weird to see them getting torn down.  If the buildout of A Place For Us is anything close to what they show in the site plan, it'll be worth it.  At least they're keeping the retail strip along Madison.

 

I'd love to see a similar TOD development at the Trinity site near the W. Blvd. rapid station, but it seems like that'll remain a dream.

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I remember the original plan looked pretty awful. The updated version is much better.

 

Also, walking along Madison today I noticed the streetcar rails are visible where they are paving.

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So is this project going to have frontages on both W. 117th and Madison?

 

That's what it looks like. But the extent of the frontage on West 117th is a question. The fence around the demolition suggests the frontage won't be very much, but they don't have to demolish much if anything on West 117th north of the strip facing Madison. It's just a parking lot.

 

One thing is for sure, the area they're developing has been an ugly scene for the entire 19 years I've lived in this neighborhood. I don't expect much from NRP Group in terms of design or construction quality, so I hope to be pleasantly surprised.


"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

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I thought construction on the Clifton Shoppes was supposed to start this fall. Now the retail listing says "Fall 2016" unless it said 2016 all along and I just assumed with wishful thinking it said 2015....

 

http://www.passovgroup.com/listings/cleveland-the-shoppes-on-clifton/


"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

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I thought construction on the Clifton Shoppes was supposed to start this fall. Now the retail listing says "Fall 2016" unless it said 2016 all along and I just assumed with wishful thinking it said 2015....

 

http://www.passovgroup.com/listings/cleveland-the-shoppes-on-clifton/

 

Hmm, I read that as meaning 'new construction' by 2016. As in opening fall 2016. Hope so...

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Landmarks agenda. Storefront renovation for the strip on the north side of Clifton next door to the coming grocery at 117th. [edit: actually it's on the southeast corner of 117th and Clifton]

 

http://planning.city.cleveland.oh.us/landmark/agenda/2015/08272015/index.php

 

Clifton-West Boulevard Historic District: Case 15-052

11621-37 Clifton Boulevard

Storefront renovation

 

http://planning.city.cleveland.oh.us/landmark/agenda/2015/08272015/image/11621-37_Clifton_Ave_01.jpg

 

http://planning.city.cleveland.oh.us/landmark/agenda/2015/08272015/image/11621-37_Clifton_Ave_13.jpg

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