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Columbus: Scioto Peninsula Developments and News

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So I went back to look at the original vision the CDDC had in terms of usage for building out the peninsula. According this article from CU here are the originally envisioned breakdowns by use in 2017 compared to the current plans:

 

  • 840k sq ft office space (up to 2m sq ft today)
  • 1,500 residential units (up to 1,800 units today)
  • 240 hotel rooms (up to 240 rooms today)
  • 180k sq ft retail space (up to 200k sq ft today)

I understand this is all preliminary, but it's still interesting to look at. The hotel and retail space hasn't changed much at all. The residential has increased by 300 units which is equal to a pretty decent size building.

 

The surprising area is the office space. Somehow CDDC has become so optimistic about office space that they are prepared to build up to twice their originally envisioned total. What this means is anyone's guess at this point. After all, it's just a preliminary number. That being said, I feel there must be some reason they have doubled the square footage. Could they have a large prospective office tenant lined up, or at the very least someone they are attempting to lure in? We did just find out Sherwin Williams will be building a new HQ are open to looking at areas in Ohio outside of Cleveland/NEO. Hmmmm 🤔

 

Another thing I'm interested about is the triangular area in the upper right corner:

 

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Will this be some sort of a museum or cultural institution? If you go back and look through other iterations of the plans for the peninsula, you will notice that the design of this building remains the almost exactly the same whether it was CDDC envisioning the area, or the Georgetown/Daimler/Kaufman proposal, as seen below.

 

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51 minutes ago, cbussoccer said:

Another thing I'm interested about is the triangular area in the upper right corner:

 

Will this be some sort of a museum or cultural institution? If you go back and look through other iterations of the plans for the peninsula, you will notice that the design of this building remains the almost exactly the same whether it was CDDC envisioning the area, or the Georgetown/Daimler/Kaufman proposal, as seen below.

 

That spot is to be reserved for a cultural addition of some sort, yes. What form that will take, unknown. My guess is the general shape mimics that of the former zoo proposal for the location. 

 

It is something that I wouldn't mind seeing local media address in terms of a prospective cultural institution. There has been one proposal and rumors of all sorts but I'd like to see a plan of some sort. 

 

If I was a betting person, I'd say it will sit empty and eventually be resigned to being a mixed use, mediocre design rather than another showpiece to balance the beta if they cant attract any new institution when the rest of the peninsula is filled.  

Edited by DTCL11

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45 minutes ago, DTCL11 said:

That spot is to be reserved for a cultural addition of some sort, yes. What form that will take, unknown. My guess is the general shape mimics that of the former zoo proposal for the location. 

 

It is something that I wouldn't mind seeing local media address in terms of a prospective cultural institution. There has been one proposal and rumors of all sorts but I'd like to see a plan of some sort. 

 

It'll likely be a Museum of Natural History or an Aquarium. I know the zoo ballot measure failed but they never removed it from their long term plans I've been told. Additionally I have seen and heard many times over that a Natural History Museum has been desired and that there is money behind it. who knows, maybe we get both. I would bet money thought that one of the two will happen and in that location. 

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2 hours ago, cbussoccer said:

We did just find out Sherwin Williams will be building a new HQ are open to looking at areas in Ohio outside of Cleveland/NEO

Yea, here is the related article:

 

https://www.wkyc.com/article/news/local/cleveland/report-four-cities-outside-of-ohio-are-being-seriously-considered-for-new-headquarters-of-sherwin-williams/95-765feb7c-2ebb-4f3e-beef-f4364f2b6012

 

Most of it is useless repeated information from John Boyd, who has no inside sources and is just spewing the names of typical relocation cities.  However, there is one interesting thing from the article, a quote from Sherwin Williams themselves:

 

Quote

3News reached out to Sherwin-Williams last week after Prendergast's post and were told the following about the status of the company's search for a new headquarters: "This comprehensive exploration is a transparent process looking out into the future for the next 100 years. It includes evaluating buildings and land in Cleveland, NE Ohio, across the state of Ohio, and other states to make sure we find the long-term opportunity to best serve our customers, employees, shareholders, and communities where we do business.”

 

The "across the state of Ohio" is interesting because it is new information directly from the company and is a blatant change from their original quote when they first publicly announced that they were looking for a new HQ:

 

Quote

Sherwin-Williams said it "will consider multiple potential sites, including locations in Cleveland, Northeast Ohio and several other states."

From here: http://crainscleveland.com/real-estate/sherwin-williams-confirms-its-looking-new-global-headquarters

 

It most likely means nothing, but it becomes a bit more interesting because of comments by a very well informed NE Ohio forumer that goes by KJP and is actually blogger, Ken Prendergast, who they are referring to in that first article.  He has mentioned that there have been some issues between Sherwin Williams and the county regarding Sherwin Williams' preferred site at Public Square because the county is also looking for a plot of land to put their new Justice Center.  He has even mentioned that at one point, relations needed to be smoothed out with Sherwin Williams. 

 

I just find it interesting that the company has changed their quote to include all of Ohio when their first quote explicitly only mentioned NE Ohio.  At that time, some of the NE Ohio forumers were concerned that Columbus would try to attract Sherwin Williams but were assured that Columbus is not part of "Cleveland, Northeast Ohio and several other states."

 

2 hours ago, cbussoccer said:

840k sq ft office space (up to 2m sq ft today)

  I find the number 2m sq ft to be particularly interesting because the number that has been thrown around about Sherwin Williams is that they are looking for the new HQ to have 1.8 m sq ft of space.

 

Like I said, this all probably means nothing.  But, I like speculating and until shovels are in the ground in Cleveland, I'm going to hope.  Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if Columbus put a package in front of them.  They may very well want to stay in Cleveland, but that means nothing if they can't get their desired land and maaayybbbeee they're just giving Columbus a little listen because of that.

Edited by TH3BUDDHA
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39 minutes ago, DevolsDance said:

 

It'll likely be a Museum of Natural History or an Aquarium. I know the zoo ballot measure failed but they never removed it from their long term plans I've been told. Additionally I have seen and heard many times over that a Natural History Museum has been desired and that there is money behind it. who knows, maybe we get both. I would bet money thought that one of the two will happen and in that location. 

 

The little zoo proposal might come back now without the Koch Buddies wanting to get in the way.

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4 minutes ago, TH3BUDDHA said:

  I find the number 2m sq ft to be particularly interesting because the number that has been thrown around about Sherwin Williams is that they are looking for the new HQ to have 1.8 m sq ft of space.

 

Good point. I meant to include this in my comment and forgot. It just so happens that phase one is only building out 240k of the planned 2m sq ft of office space, meaning nearly 1.8m remain. How convenient! 

 

I doubt SW moves to Columbus, but this helps quantify just how much office space they plan to build. 2m sq ft is extremely optimistic if they don't have a big player committed to leasing space, or at least a couple solid options. 

 

10 minutes ago, TH3BUDDHA said:

Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if Columbus put a package in front of them. 

 

I imagine it wouldn't be too difficult to retrofit the pitch they made to Amazon and present it to SW. We know they were trying to sell Amazon on taking space on the peninsula, and SW wouldn't take up nearly as much space as Amazon would have so they should still have room to fit them in.

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1 hour ago, cbussoccer said:

I doubt SW moves to Columbus

Same.  But, a man can dream.  I'd say our chances are about 1 out of a million.

 

 

 

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15 hours ago, cbussoccer said:

I imagine it wouldn't be too difficult to retrofit the pitch they made to Amazon and present it to SW. We know they were trying to sell Amazon on taking space on the peninsula, and SW wouldn't take up nearly as much space as Amazon would have so they should still have room to fit them in.

 

Are they still doing the bolded now post-HQ2? I didn't realize that. Curious if there was an article or something out there about it.

 

As far as Sherwin-Williams, I'd actually prefer if they stayed in Cleveland. I'm a Northeast Ohio native now living in Columbus, and even I recognize that a huge factor in Columbus' growth is the migration of people like myself from NEO to Columbus. But we also must remember that Columbus' success is Cleveland's success and I would hate to see Cleveland take such a hit at all, even if they moved to Columbus.

 

But it probably won't happen. I'm more concerned they're moving out of state.

Edited by Zyrokai

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14 minutes ago, Zyrokai said:

But we also must remember that Cleveland's success is Columbus' success

 

So wouldn't Columbus' success also be Cleveland's success? If things truly are getting a little more rocky than people initially thought in NEO, wouldn't it better for SW to move to Columbus than some place like Charlotte?

 

I'm not rooting for SW to leave Cleveland or anything, I was simply speculating about the fact that CDDC has doubled their planned office space bringing it up to 2m sq ft. I can't imagine they would be twice as confident in filling office space than they were three years ago unless they have a big time tenant (not necessarily SW) in mind. SW just so happens to be looking for an amount of space equal to the amount of remaining office space to be built after phase one. As I said, if anything it just helps to conceptualize how much office space remains in the coming phases. 

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33 minutes ago, cbussoccer said:

 

So wouldn't Columbus' success also be Cleveland's success? If things truly are getting a little more rocky than people initially thought in NEO, wouldn't it better for SW to move to Columbus than some place like Charlotte?

 

I'm not rooting for SW to leave Cleveland or anything, I was simply speculating about the fact that CDDC has doubled their planned office space bringing it up to 2m sq ft. I can't imagine they would be twice as confident in filling office space than they were three years ago unless they have a big time tenant (not necessarily SW) in mind. SW just so happens to be looking for an amount of space equal to the amount of remaining office space to be built after phase one. As I said, if anything it just helps to conceptualize how much office space remains in the coming phases. 

The speculation is neat to ponder, but my guess is they are legit trying to bring on more Class A office space even if it's vacant for a bit to grow into.  Last report I saw, and it was from 3rd Quarter Office Trends Report by Colliers, was that Columbus had dipped down to 8.91% vacancy rate downtown, which from what I understand is indication they could start building more to offer.  Similarly the Q3 Cleveland report has them sitting at a 13.1% vacancy.  With Columbus falling below the 10% threshold, there is definitely demand for more office space to come online in the future.  This is a great opportunity to introduce this into the market.  (yeah I know we all want super tall sometimes, but infill and walkability is great, I can't tell you how much infill has happened in the 10 years I've lived here now and the vibe at street level is great!!!)

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3 minutes ago, Gnoraa said:

The speculation is neat to ponder, but my guess is they are legit trying to bring on more Class A office space even if it's vacant for a bit to grow into.  Last report I saw, and it was from 3rd Quarter Office Trends Report by Colliers, was that Columbus had dipped down to 8.91% vacancy rate downtown, which from what I understand is indication they could start building more to offer.  Similarly the Q3 Cleveland report has them sitting at a 13.1% vacancy.  With Columbus falling below the 10% threshold, there is definitely demand for more office space to come online in the future.  This is a great opportunity to introduce this into the market.  (yeah I know we all want super tall sometimes, but infill and walkability is great, I can't tell you how much infill has happened in the 10 years I've lived here now and the vibe at street level is great!!!)

 

Excellent point. I didn't see that about the vacancy rate. I wonder how the vacancy rate now compares to what it was in early 2017 when the Scioto Peninsula plans were first detailed. A lower vacancy could certainly lead them to feel more comfortable building more space, although more than doubling the amount of space still seems pretty ambitious to me. 

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1 hour ago, Zyrokai said:

 

Are they still doing the bolded now post-HQ2? I didn't realize that. Curious if there was an article or something out there about it.

 

As far as Sherwin-Williams, I'd actually prefer if they stayed in Cleveland. I'm a Northeast Ohio native now living in Columbus, and even I recognize that a huge factor in Columbus' growth is the migration of people like myself from NEO to Columbus. But we also must remember that Columbus' success is Cleveland's success and I would hate to see Cleveland take such a hit at all, even if they moved to Columbus.

 

But it probably won't happen. I'm more concerned they're moving out of state.

I hope they stay in Cleveland as well.  I'm just happy that they've expanded their comments to include "across the state of Ohio" in the event of some failed land deal or something.  It would really suck to see them leave for Charlotte or Atlanta.

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1 hour ago, cbussoccer said:

 

So wouldn't Columbus' success also be Cleveland's success? If things truly are getting a little more rocky than people initially thought in NEO, wouldn't it better for SW to move to Columbus than some place like Charlotte?

 

I'm not rooting for SW to leave Cleveland or anything, I was simply speculating about the fact that CDDC has doubled their planned office space bringing it up to 2m sq ft. I can't imagine they would be twice as confident in filling office space than they were three years ago unless they have a big time tenant (not necessarily SW) in mind. SW just so happens to be looking for an amount of space equal to the amount of remaining office space to be built after phase one. As I said, if anything it just helps to conceptualize how much office space remains in the coming phases. 

 

So I actually edited my post probably around the same time you quoted me, because I meant to say it the way you typed it, lol. Yes, Columbus' success is also Cleveland's success. I think Columbus is stronger if the whole state is strong. I have my concerns about a Columbus-dominated state economy. I think Ohio is better off with multiple strong cities rather than one strong and multiple struggling. Basically, I don't want Ohio to look like a Georgia or an Indiana where one city dominates the entire thing. I don't think we're anywhere near that, but I mean.....Cleveland just keeps struggling and I don't like that it's at the expense of Columbus thriving. I'd like Columbus to draw more out-of-state people than just people moving from NEO. And I realize I'm saying that as someone from NEO, haha.

Edited by Zyrokai
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Not to trail too far off topic and repeat the endless circles in the Cleveland thread but keep in mind SW is seeking to bring the business AND multiple r&d sites together from what has been expressed. This will require more than just typical class A office space. There is plenty if room for more industrial style buildings If needed in future phases. Also note that in a call with investors the other day, the CEO stated that they aren't terribly excited about investing millions and millions into a new HQ but he didn't say anything to indicate they will only build and own or seek to lease space rather than fronting the building costs. 

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17 hours ago, GCrites80s said:

 

The little zoo proposal might come back now without the Koch Buddies wanting to get in the way.

 

There are plenty of their minions that will gladly take up the torch and work to prevent another ballot measure. I would expect another handy defeat if they got it on the ballot again. 

 

I know there's been rumors for years about Natural History but I expected we would have seen something by now to fuel more rumors. They just died out after awhile. 

 

I always enjoyed the rumors about an extension of the Air and Space Museum. Those were most exciting to me. 

 

Then there's the perennial rumor of Ohio History but they can't find sufficient funding for a move I suspect. 

 

My dream was always an aquarium like the National Aquarium in Baltimore. The footprint is relatively small but the design and height make it a fantastically efficient use of space. 

 

That or a new world class concert hall or separate modern museum of art. 

 

As much as I'm ok with developing the West end of the peninsula, I personally had envisioned it to be our own version of University Circle. I dont have the money to make it happen so I can't complain too much lol. 

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50 minutes ago, Zyrokai said:

 

So I actually edited my post probably around the same time you quoted me, because I meant to say it the way you typed it, lol. Yes, Columbus' success is also Cleveland's success. I think Columbus is stronger if the whole state is strong. I have my concerns about a Columbus-dominated state economy. I think Ohio is better off with multiple strong cities rather than one strong and multiple struggling. Basically, I don't want Ohio to look like a Georgia or an Indiana where one city dominates the entire thing. I don't think we're anywhere near that, but I mean.....Cleveland just keeps struggling and I don't like that it's at the expense of Columbus thriving. I'd like Columbus to draw more out-of-state people than just people moving from NEO. And I realize I'm saying that as someone from NEO, haha.

I also think a failing Cleveland actually prevents a lot of people from considering Columbus as a cool place they'd want to move.  You will often see positive media about Columbus with comments like "yea, but it's in Ohio."  I've talked to people when travelling to other cities and they immediately have a certain reaction when you say you're from Ohio.  They really know nothing about Columbus, though.  I think a lot of this negative feeling people have about Ohio as a whole comes from the famous negative media about Cleveland, especially the burning river and "at least we're not Detroit video."  They just assume that's all of Ohio.  I do think the secret is beginning to get out about Columbus, though.  So this may start changing very quickly.

Edited by TH3BUDDHA
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16 minutes ago, TH3BUDDHA said:

I also think a failing Cleveland actually prevents a lot of people from considering Columbus as a cool place they'd want to move.  You will often see positive media about Columbus with comments like "yea, but it's in Ohio."  I've talked to people when travelling to other cities and they immediately have a certain reaction when you say you're from Ohio.  They really know nothing about Columbus, though.  I think a lot of this negative feeling people have about Ohio as a whole comes from the famous negative media about Cleveland, especially the burning river and "at least we're not Detroit video."  They just assume that's all of Ohio.  I do think the secret is beginning to get out about Columbus, though.  So this may start changing very quickly.

The people that "assume" are literally just doing that.  In my experience, I've found that most people from both coasts, like to poke fun, yet have never been, so it's literally ignorant assumptions.  I've lived in Columbus for about 10 years now, and more than half of my close core group of friends came from other states.  Houston, San Francisco, and New York City being the 3 main ones.  Each admittedly were reluctant when they got assigned to move here for work, and in their mind looked at it as temporary.  Very quickly however, they ended up loving it and decided to set down legit roots here, building homes in the greater Short North area as well as getting married and starting families here.  Further more, given how much they have traveled and lived around the United States prior to this, they have plenty of friends that have visited from all over.  Every time we have first time visitors from Austin, Seattle, Dallas, NYC, etc......at first they are like "why am I going to visit Columbus?"........and each time the same unexpected outcome be-founds them and they end up loving it here.  They are surprised by the size and amenities that are here, and have all ended up repeat visitors every year!!

 

I guess what I'm getting at, is that Columbus, and all of Ohio for that matter does have a lot to be proud of, and we shouldn't let ill-informed comments or opinions from people who have never actually spent time here affect us.  They can live in their over priced coastal bubbles for all I care.  They act so cultured and cosmopolitan, yet most of them are scared to leave and see the rest of the country.

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36 minutes ago, TH3BUDDHA said:

I also think a failing Cleveland actually prevents a lot of people from considering Columbus as a cool place they'd want to move.  You will often see positive media about Columbus with comments like "yea, but it's in Ohio."  I've talked to people when travelling to other cities and they immediately have a certain reaction when you say you're from Ohio.  They really know nothing about Columbus, though.  I think a lot of this negative feeling people have about Ohio as a whole comes from the famous negative media about Cleveland, especially the burning river and "at least we're not Detroit video."  They just assume that's all of Ohio.  I do think the secret is beginning to get out about Columbus, though.  So this may start changing very quickly.

Luckily Cleveland ain’t failing anymore. Hopefully SW stays in Cleveland and the progress of the state as a whole keeps going in this great positive direction. The burning river and that stupid video truly piss me off. I just need to get people to Cleveland and it’s amazing how quickly they change their mind of the city. Same went for Columbus when I lived there. So many people are so narrow minded.

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3 hours ago, Gnoraa said:

The speculation is neat to ponder, but my guess is they are legit trying to bring on more Class A office space even if it's vacant for a bit to grow into.  Last report I saw, and it was from 3rd Quarter Office Trends Report by Colliers, was that Columbus had dipped down to 8.91% vacancy rate downtown, which from what I understand is indication they could start building more to offer.  Similarly the Q3 Cleveland report has them sitting at a 13.1% vacancy.  With Columbus falling below the 10% threshold, there is definitely demand for more office space to come online in the future.  This is a great opportunity to introduce this into the market.  (yeah I know we all want super tall sometimes, but infill and walkability is great, I can't tell you how much infill has happened in the 10 years I've lived here now and the vibe at street level is great!!!)

They're going to increase downtown's total office space by 16% on spec? Who in the world would finance that? Columbus developers can't even get financing for proper sized housing developments in a market woefully undersupplied.

Edited by aderwent

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I guess the alternative to building that much on spec is waiting endlessly for a tenant in the way that Millenial tower is. Will be interesting to see what pans out  

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25 minutes ago, DTCL11 said:

I guess the alternative to building that much on spec is waiting endlessly for a tenant in the way that Millenial tower is. Will be interesting to see what pans out  

Yea, I think the Scioto Peninsula developers have the benefit of having such a huge parcel of land that they are building out in multiple phases over a decade.  They can afford to go a little smaller on these first buildings and get a feeling for the demand.  They can ramp up the next phases as needed.  Millenial Tower is a bit different in that they have that smaller plot in a prime location.  It seems they want to go tall, but it's probably more risky to do that without a guaranteed commitment.  I'd rather they wait for the right moment to go tall than to take the safe route of putting another 5 or 6 story building there.  Maybe this new "mini Millenial Tower" is actually their attempt at similarly feeling out the market?

Edited by TH3BUDDHA

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3 minutes ago, DTCL11 said:

I guess the alternative to building that much on spec is waiting endlessly for a tenant in the way that Millenial tower is. Will be interesting to see what pans out  

 

This is why I speculated about CDDC being in talks with SW (or some other big time company) to potentially take up a large chunk of space. If they plan to fill up 2m sq ft of office space in a piecemeal manner, they are going to have vacant office space for a very long time. 

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If we want to discuss/speculate on what should/could go onto that triangle of land on the southeast corner of the site, should we do it here, or start a separate thread? Thanks.

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24 minutes ago, Toddguy said:

If we want to discuss/speculate on what should/could go onto that triangle of land on the southeast corner of the site, should we do it here, or start a separate thread? Thanks.

 

Whatever it is, I hope that it's something that directly engages the river.  Now that it's nice and doesn't smell like sewage, there is no reason for development to keep ignoring it.

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54 minutes ago, jonoh81 said:

 

Whatever it is, I hope that it's something that directly engages the river.  Now that it's nice and doesn't smell like sewage, there is no reason for development to keep ignoring it.

I would like some sort of interactive museum, multi-function art facility, or something like that which would appeal to a wide range of people and have some interactive parts to engage people along with great architecture(to match the new Vets), good interaction with the river, and outdoor space facing the river that would incorporate with some retail/restaurants in the facility. Some thing that would talk to and speak back to Bicentennial Park in some way and encourage cross river interaction. 

 

What kind of thing is possible for this site given the city and the current state of the movers and shakers within the city? Can Wexner step up again, somebody else? Is an Aquarium possible at this location?

 

I was underwhelmed with the earlier zoo proposal-I felt it did not go far enough in scale and scope and was a bit too limited given this very important site.

 

 

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11 hours ago, Toddguy said:

If we want to discuss/speculate on what should/could go onto that triangle of land on the southeast corner of the site, should we do it here, or start a separate thread? Thanks.

 

I say discuss it here. It's part of the overall Scioto Peninsula development envisioned by CDDC, so I think it belongs here. 

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On 10/29/2019 at 9:15 PM, Toddguy said:

I would like some sort of interactive museum, multi-function art facility, or something like that which would appeal to a wide range of people and have some interactive parts to engage people along with great architecture(to match the new Vets), good interaction with the river, and outdoor space facing the river that would incorporate with some retail/restaurants in the facility. Some thing that would talk to and speak back to Bicentennial Park in some way and encourage cross river interaction. 

 

What kind of thing is possible for this site given the city and the current state of the movers and shakers within the city? Can Wexner step up again, somebody else? Is an Aquarium possible at this location?

 

I was underwhelmed with the earlier zoo proposal-I felt it did not go far enough in scale and scope and was a bit too limited given this very important site.

 

 

 

I agree on the zoo. I didn't hate it but I thought it was a mediocre attempt. It would fall into the category of a decent local/regional attraction. And if we try an aquarium, it needs to be a major aquarium, not local/regional IMO

 

To be honest, I believe as stunning as the Vets Museum is, the experience on the inside needs a bit of work. I applaud the concept, I just wanted to get more out of it. I have long felt that there should be an attempt to bring Motts downtown as an extension of the Vets Museum. A secondary museum where the parking lots are was my 'sim city' vision.  

 

As far as the movers and shakers, it's hard to say.

 

I'm not sure what Wexner has left or has up his sleeve. They are one of the foremost collectors of Picassos and I'm assuming a significant collection of other art. I would not be surprised to see it donated and a facility for it. The question will be whether the facility will be in New Albany (founding a New Albany Art Museum), a wing at Columbus Museum of Art, New Build as part of the OSU 'Arts District', or the Peninsula or something else along the lines of Pizutti collection. 

 

Given its location and importance, I feel like it would be an easy sell for donors and corporations to come together for something amazing. The trouble will be deciding what will bring them all together. The people and foundations that would donate for an arts facility may not entirely overlap with those for an aquarium etc. 

 

Edit: another thing I'd like to see come back is elements of the old proposals for the Franklinton Gateway sculptures. 

 

https://www.columbusunderground.com/new-gateway-concepts-shared-for-town-and-rich-streets-in-franklinton-bw1

 

 

As an aside, the Pulse Foundation announced the winner of their museum design and I thought how amazing something similar would be in that location to play off the shape of the Vets. I think anything that goes in that spot should be just as iconic. Bonus points for some height. For some additional context, the Pulse Memorial and Museum is projected to cost $45 million. The new Vets was $80 million if I remember correctly. 

 

 

Screenshot_20191030-212013_Chrome.jpg

Edited by DTCL11
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