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Cleveland: Flats Developments (Non-Stonebridge or FEB)

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Hell yeah!  I'm thinking the PBL gift inspired this one as well...

 

That's not how it works. Applications were due long ago. The board comes in and approves what the staff has recommended. The foundations are very deliberate in the process. Whether PBL gave money or not, I bet it didn't influence either of the two foundations. Additionally, these foundations give a lot of "guidance" to their applicants.

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This is good news and, especially with so many other bridges getting improvements, but I'll never understand why this sh!t takes a year+.  If this was in any other country, I bet it would be done within at least three months.  I'm guessing it's contract related to maximize worker and company pay. Maybe this is my inner world-traveler speaking...when I was in Doha for a few months, all I saw were crains and construction, and building shooting up in the course of a month or two. I know, different labor and different pay and workers on site 18-24 hrs a day, but still...

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You must have never been to Italy...

 

LOL...

 

You're right.

 

But I am going to France and Spain next week.  I'll make sure to take note of Spains recent construction, instead of comparing Cleveland to Doha.

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^^ Qatar has very lax building regulations and unions are few and far between if they are even legal. In Cleveland and other muncipalities, any government project is inherently burdened by a tangled web of cronyism, kickbacks, preferred union shops, deliberate budget overruns and all-out materials theft. There's no incentive whatsoever to complete the project quickly and efficiently.

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More money coming in...we're getting closer:

 

Grants from Lennon and Lozick foundations lift hopes for Rivergate project on the Cuyahoga

Published: Tuesday, August 24, 2010, 6:20 PM   

Steven Litt, The Plain Dealer

 

 

New grants from the Fred A. Lennon Charitable Trust and the Lozick Foundation have pushed the Cleveland Rowing Foundation $100,000 closer this year to the dream of establishing a public center for rowing, canoeing and kayaking on the Cuyahoga River. The foundation is negotiating a bridge loan with a bank to complete the $3 million deal to buy the former Commodore's Club Marina on Columbus Road peninsula in the Flats. A closing is planned for mid-September.

 

"We're confident we're going to get there," said Jon Adams, co-chairman of the Rivergate Fund. "In the last month we've just seen tremendous and widespread support for the project. "People are actually starting to get it. They see the potential for bringing thousands of people down to the river by opening up the river to public use. It's resonating."

 

http://blog.cleveland.com/architecture/2010/08/grants_from_lennon_and_lozick.html

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Awesomeness...

 

Creating Rivergate Park: Cleveland Rowing Foundation buys site on Cuyahoga River

Published: Monday, September 13, 2010, 8:55 PM   

Steven Litt, The Plain Dealer

 

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- The Cleveland Rowing Foundation closed a deal Monday to create Rivergate Park, a new public park on the Cuyahoga River devoted to rowing, canoeing, kayaking and dragon-boating.

 

The foundation raised $3 million in grants, donations and loans in less than a year to purchase nearly seven acres on Columbus Road Peninsula from the former Commodore's Club, a powerboat marina and boat storage center at 1785 Merwin Ave. The park is expected to open next summer.

 

http://blog.cleveland.com/architecture/2010/09/rivergate.html

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Pretty exciting.  I wonder if all of this activity/development in the flats will prompt the city to re-pave the roads, put in some curbs/sidewalks, remove concrete barriers & chain link fences, pick up litter, etc.  A facelift alone would make a big difference.

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^ With this all happening at once (FEB, Casino, Rivergate) I would hope so as well.  The roads down there are some of the worst in the city.

 

Let's just put some more population down there a.k.a property owners. :)

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you know i have always imagined an urban community, maybe 5-10 storey highrises down there. just the right height so they are under the bridges. could be really incredible. add a few canals and you have one of the coolest urban neighborhoods in the entire U.S...

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^^Roads...I bet the sewers are the worse in the city....any development would require lots of help from the city for infrastructure improvements.

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Interesting article (I just read it) - they even tease (again) Scranton Road Peninsula and Forest City wanting to connect it to the casino. Other then that it discusses the towpath, some businesses moving in, and a short mention of the East Banks project, which it says is still stalled.

 

The most interesting quote is "Forest City didn't pay $2 million for this property in the 1980s to use it as a parking lot". 

Cmoooon mixed use riverfront development  :-D

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From Michael McIntyre's Tipoff column on cleveland.com this morning:

 

"The Children's Museum, which occupies a tired space in University Circle, is considering a move to the Powerhouse on the west bank of Cleveland's Flats, according to sources. It could be a smart move pairing the museum with a new aquarium planned for much of the Powerhouse space.

 

It's also possible that the museum will stay put and make major renovations. It's on a month-to-month deal with University Circle, Inc., which owns the current building.

 

The museum's financial picture has improved recently, giving it options."

 

http://www.cleveland.com/tipoff/index.ssf/2010/11/clevelander_joe_eszterhas_rips.html

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Yeah... that location sucks, but I hope it stays in UC. 

 

I thought the proposal for the powerhouse aquarium had died.... or at least died down?

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I really hope that the Children's Museum does not move out of University Circle. It just wouldn't make any sense leaving that area filled with cultural institutions and life and progress for the West Bank of the flats. The Powerhouse can be confusing for some people to find, and sorry to say it but you have to drive through some pretty shitty stuff to reach it. University Circle just seems like the right place for them. And I don't see that aquarium ever happening, nor do I want it to.

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I really hope that the Children's Museum does not move out of University Circle. It just wouldn't make any sense leaving that area filled with cultural institutions and life and progress for the West Bank of the flats. The Powerhouse can be confusing for some people to find, and sorry to say it but you have to drive through some pretty sh!tty stuff to reach it. University Circle just seems like the right place for them. And I don't see that aquarium ever happening, nor do I want it to.

 

What is so shitty?  I'm sure the people in Stonebridge wouldn't appreciate their neighborhood being referred to as "shitty".  And why is University Circle so "right" for this museum? 

 

Pairing it with an aquarium is good synergy and can be a catalyst for further growth and connectivity of the lake/river front districts.

 

I love the CM but it's location is a deterent in relation to the other museums.  I suggested they move to 105/west quad area.

 

 

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Stonebridge is a really nice development but it is pretty much secluded to the superior viaduct. That area as a whole is far from being strong. University Circle neighborhood is growing and lots is going on. Its by other museums. I dont believe the aquarium in the powerhouse will ever happen. And I also believe that if the Children Museum moved to the west bank, they would lose visitors.

 

And Im trying to think in a Moms point of view. Driving down Washington Avenue isn't the best. You have the homeless on that one corner. You also have a strip club nearby.

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"And Im trying to think in a Moms point of view. Driving down Washington Avenue isn't the best. You have the homeless on that one corner. You also have a strip club nearby."

 

I am so tired of this suburban attitude. Everyone wants the world to look like Disney World.  Where are all of the urban people?

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You may be tired of it, but if you want things to be successful, you better take it into consideration.

 

Exactly, its not my point of view necessarily but I can see what is realistic. And I dont see putting the Children's Museum on the west bank of the flats is.

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once again people have the attitude the flats should be sewer, a dumping ground of "undesirable" (not my words )people and only seedy businesses. If people want something better they are told they never should have moved there in the first place (if they are a resident) and like this thread indicates, the thought of even bringing something positive is met with negativity. Heaven forbid junior cast his gaze upon a homeless person on the way to the museum. I shudder to think of it.

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Not sure why people are getting a chip on their shoulder about this.  It's laughable that the museum would move out there, and we all know it. 

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If you don't think a place is good for kids, then change it. Urban land use isn't an uncontrollable function of nature.


"Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you respond." -- Coach Lou Holtz

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My problem with this discussion is the same as most discussions involving downtown Cleveland.  It is always led by the suburbanites.  We should have more parks with benches, etc.  Where are the urban people in these discussions.  Do you think anyone in NYC is talking about how moving a museum downtown is a bad move?  To move the Children's museum to the powerhouse is a great idea.  The current space is terrible and this would be an incredible improvement. 

 

For all the people talking about how bad the west bank of the Flats is, when was the last time you were there?  Do you even know that it is a thriving entertainment area with bars, restaurants, and thousands of apartments/condos?  This thread is starting to read like Cleveland.dumb. I am getting really tired of the constant misconception about downtown Cleveland.

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I wouldn't call the West bank of the flats "downtown."  I wouldn't really call it a thriving entertainment district at the moment either.  I think that almost everyone on here is an urbanite or else they would not already be here.  I also think that University Circle is a very urban environment already and I don't think that moving it to the flats would really make it more "urban."  All that said however, the powerhouse is a cool space and maybe being closer to the west side would be an asset for them.  It would be more accessible to the highway too.  I think the powerhouse could work but it would be nice to have something else nearby to bring a little more life to that area if the children's museum does decide to move.

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I've heard the people at Lolly the Trolley talk about how people have a hard time finding the powerhouse. We all know where it is so it seems silly to us but most of the people who do go on lolly the trolley or go to the Children's Museum live in the suburbs and do have a hard time getting to and navigating the westbank of the flats.

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As of now, University Circle has a kind of momentum that is rare and remarkable when you consider the fact that we are a poor city in the middle of a long suffering rust belt in the middle of a global depression.  It just doesn't make any sense to move the Children's museum from it's well situated area to the Flats.

 

Despite the city's love of the word 'district', we only really have two true ones:  Theater and Arts.  The others are really just districts in name only.  Why support moving one of the staples of our arts district (my term for UC) to the Flats which has a more adult allure right now and the foreseeable future.  Why play musical chairs because of (let's be honest guys) doubtful project for an aquarium?  Why support stepping on UC's momentum?

 

Keep the museums nice and close to each other.  Keep UC a complete destination for museum hopping for people who want to hang around there all day. 

 

 

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As of now, University Circle has a kind of momentum that is rare and remarkable when you consider the fact that we are a poor city in the middle of a long suffering rust belt in the middle of a global depression. It just doesn't make any sense to move the Children's museum from it's well situated area to the Flats.

 

Despite the city's love of the word 'district', we only really have two true ones: Theater and Arts. The others are really just districts in name only. Why support moving one of the staples of our arts district (my term for UC) to the Flats which has a more adult allure right now and the foreseeable future. Why play musical chairs because of (let's be honest guys) doubtful project for an aquarium?   Why support stepping on UC's momentum?

 

Keep the museums nice and close to each other.   Keep UC a complete destination for museum hopping for people who want to hang around there all day.

 

 

 

Nicely put! thats what ive been trying to say

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Stonebridge is a really nice development but it is pretty much secluded to the superior viaduct. That area as a whole is far from being strong. University Circle neighborhood is growing and lots is going on. Its by other museums. I dont believe the aquarium in the powerhouse will ever happen. And I also believe that if the Children Museum moved to the west bank, they would lose visitors.

 

And Im trying to think in a Moms point of view. Driving down Washington Avenue isn't the best. You have the homeless on that one corner. You also have a strip club nearby.

 

How do you get to University Circle?  And what do you pass along the way?

 

I understand your point, but you're passing the same things when you're a mom going to University Circle, Playhouse Square, Progressive Field, Browns stadium, etc.  I pass the same things going to work downtown everyday.  And St. Malachi's Sunday church service is still very highly attended by people of all ages...and in case you didn't know, that's the source of all the homeless people who live in the shelter and come by to get food.

 

If you don't think the powerhouse is a good location for this, fine.  But that reason is pretty silly.

 

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I've heard the people at Lolly the Trolley talk about how people have a hard time finding the powerhouse. We all know where it is so it seems silly to us but most of the people who do go on lolly the trolley or go to the Children's Museum live in the suburbs and do have a hard time getting to and navigating the westbank of the flats.

 

And people who don't come downtown have trouble finding W 6th, the Justice Center, E 4th and other major downtown places.  I know this because as I am walking my dogs in the west bank people stop and ask me for directions to these places all the time, and I instruct them how to get back up to W25th and Detroit, over the bridge, and to wherever they are going.

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