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Everything posted by ColDayMan

  1. Couple of interesting facts: Dayton area has 188 commissioned Olmsted Bros. projects. Dayton has more Olmsted Bros. projects than any other city outside of the East Coast. Ridgeway Ave. was the Dayton Area's richest street in the early 1900's. Hills and Dales Park helpd create the suburb in the Canton area.
  2. I don't remember the NAMES of the streets but I do know it's mostly west of their "town center."
  3. NEW ALBANY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Building history, one day at a time. This is the nicest sign in the whole world!!! Future drug addict... GRANVILLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  4. Well good for you! Again, if you need a tour, just PM me.
  5. Your first two sentences are nothing more than conjecture, so I won't address them. As far as the Cleveland compared to Akron comparison goes, Cleveland can trace just about all its Hispanic roots to the migration of Puerto Ricans to the area several decades ago (i.e. this happened a long time ago). As far as why they settled in greater Cleveland, one could probably assume it was because of Cleveland's burgeoning economy AT THE TIME (i.e. not now). Toledo can more than likely attribute its large Latino (Mexican) population, like I already said, to the fact that the area is surrounded primarily by farmland, as migrant workers are very attracted to these areas. Toledo's highway access (I-80 and I-75, giving it easy proximity to large Mexican centers like Chicago and Detroit), also could very well be a large factor. So please, don't bring that "why aren't the Mexicans coming to Cinci-Columbus-Dayton-Coshocton" shit. It's like asking why Bosnians aren't moving to Flint, Michigan.
  6. Cincinnati has had one of the highest African-American median incomes for Midwest metropolitan areas since the 80's. Any stat will show that; just look it up on Google.com (for reference). For example: Forest Park has proved a magnet for middle-class African-Americans. The northern Hamilton County suburb became majority black during the 1990s, and black residents there earn a median household income of $51,330, more than the typical white's income of $48,237. www.enquirer.com (2003) Toledo doesn't even have income to begin with as your two tallest builldings will soon be scrap metel for a house in Oakland County, Michigan. So please, don't bring up the "income" shit. And of course I don't have to bring up the segregation bullshit, as I've already bitchslapped you in the last thread concerning that. And you bring up police beatings and such, are you aware that that was ALSO minreported and overexaggerated, much like Toledo's riot? You DO realize that was the point of my jab, right? To play media exploitations. Just like Ohio's supposed lack of diversity.
  7. *One jab in, since it's almost too easy* Yes, coming from Toledo, the land of Neo-Nazi marchers, Detroit Jr. syndromes, segregated neighborhoods, and statehood insecurities. *Leaves to go to Red Robin*
  8. Oh, and I will not be responding to this thread again. Why bother?
  9. And for something to think about, conservative, backwater Kansas and Oklahoma have a sizable Mexican population and are not growing. Declining. Gone, even. Yet they still have a sizable Mexican and are probably increasing in size. Now why is that? WHY is "conservative" Kansas beating, say, multi-ethnic Toledo haven, which is just as job-loss prone and just as dead, in Mexican numbers? Gee by golly, I don't know ColDayMan!
  10. Of course Toledo's first Latinos were migrant as Lucas County used to have much more of an agriculture, but today- no way does farming bring Latinos to Lucas (Wood possibly). Almost 2/3 of Toledo MSA is Lucas County. Toledo hardly had any migrant workers compared to other parts of Northwest Ohio, sorry. They are coming from all over, not just farms in Northwest Ohio- many are from other countries entirely. I don't think you are getting what I'm saying. They aren't coming FROM the farms in Northwest Ohio. They are coming to Northwest Ohio for the FARMS. Like I said, it's NOT all about economics. How the hell can you prove economics are bringing Latinos to Lucas County? Like I said, the economy is a joke, and THERE are hardly any jobs left in the agricultural industry in Lucas County. The agricultural stuff is going away fast. Besides the fact agriculture doesn't bring immigrants today like it used to. "Jobs in the fields"- you have to be kidding? That's a pretty weird stereotype for urban immigrants. Have you ever heard of the term "commuting?" There is an area of Columbus called Lincoln Village in which landscapers (mostly Mexicans from Oaxaca) go to the surrounding communities and rural areas to landscape. Ditto with the Mexican population near Grove City helping out farms. They don't LIVE in the rural areas of Northwest Ohio (nor do they have to; though Toledo can be rural too :D) but simply can WORK in them, which is relatively close in distance from the city. Your argument would work if Toledo actually had a sizable Latino population in 1980 (back when there was more agriculture), but it didn't. Most have come since 1990, well after agriculture started leaving Lucas County. This new population is largely first generation, not second and third generation migrant families. Now of course today since a large barrio has been established, that has accelerated growth. I don't think there is much connection between Toledo's Latino areas and the farms of the Delta or Defiance area. Again, re-read what I said above. I'm not saying ALL the Mexicans that live in Toledo (or even the majority) work on a farm. I'm saying the reason that BROUGHT them to Toledo WERE because of agricultural opportunities (which Metro Toledo STILL has plenty of, using your "Toledo doesn't sprawl that much" arguement from a previous thread). And yes, Ottawa Hills has smut just so you know. UT does of course factor into it. btw, a strip joint is much different from an Asian spa :-D Yes, I know. Even Springfield has Asian spas. My point about political power is simple. Lucas County has a ton of powerful Latino politicians- some other places in Ohio do not. We also have many powerful Arabs and of course blacks too. This is damn important to local minorities, regardless of where they're from. It's a lot like Harvey Milk in San Francisco. It takes leaders like this to solidify a community. I would wager that Lucas County's large Arab community is related to this too. The powerful politicians that are Arab and Latino represent acceptance by the white majority. I feel that DOES make a difference. Why would any Arab or Latino immigrant want to settle in a county with a terrible economy unless they knew they had just as good a chance of getting what's left as the white people do? What on earth? Acceptance becasue they are in a community? Hardly. In some cases, it's forced (re: New York's harsh institution in the 1950s, where blacks were in the gov't yet only because they had a powerful say in Manhattan's Uptown). One can live in a city of the most diverse population yet still not be a very "accepting" place (in some cases, it can backfire into anger; case in point today, Paris). I'm not saying "lily-white > diversity;" not by any means; I'm saying acceptance does not equate with "who's in politics." The reason why Mexicans (I wouldn't say Latinos, because Latinos is a more broad definition; we are mostly talking about Mexicans) and Arabs would move to Lucas County over, say, Auglaize, would be because of the historical ties to that group. Much like Bosnians in St. Louis; or Somalis in Columbus; etc. Is St. Louis "accepting" simply because it has a Bosnian population greater than most cities? No. But it does mean that Bosnians that are looking for places in the US to settle will probably look at St. Louis moreso than other cities, due to the numbers. It's almost self-segregating, to an extent. Interesting. The whole acceptance thing. It DOES take the support of the white majority (almost 75% of Lucas County) to elect these minorities to positions of power. I ask you this: Would San Francisco be as inviting to gays had there never been a Harvey Milk? Again, I bring up the importance of Louis Escobar (or Judge Flores, Sherrif Telb, etc.) Is it acceptance or is it really politics? I mean, do the white people in Lucas County REALLY give a damn if Joe Asim is Arab? Would it matter more if he were a Democrat? Race takes a backseat to politics or political views, in times. The point being, acceptance isn't really the issue, as I'm sure there have been racists in the South that have voted for Republican blacks...I'm talking to you Alabama... It's always easy to say "it's all about the money," but that's very shallow and simplistic. Much like your essays on southern Ohio and "Toledo having the ____ in Ohio?" Right. There are many more factors. In Lucas County, it is not about money, but about acceptance and power. If it was outright about moving to a place where jobs were readily available, Lucas County's foreign-born population should be close to 0%. Again. Again. and Again. Lucas County is near/in agragarian rich fields. Thus, it was an initial attraction for Mexicans. Nothing to do with "acceptance or power." They just GAINED it because they were able to settle and establish their own community. Much like blacks in the early 20's moving to northern cities. Nice stereotype. Why thank you. You obviously didn't follow the local media coverage afterwards. Guess what? there were a lot of whites arrested. White gang members in Vistula and LaGrange were quoted numerous times saying the riot was supported by almost everyone in these integrated ghettos. So Toledo embraces all races when it comes to gangs. How...umm...Detroit. Of course many national news outlets tried their damndest to avoid showing this (they need to scare white suburbanites). In general though, the Bloods and Crips of North Toledo are indeed mostly black. What's amazing is that there was such a multi-ethnic support of the riot in Toledo despite being led by black gangs. Not a single Nazi there was even from Toledo!! They came from Virginia. Ah, but the question is...WHY did they come to Toledo from Virginia (if they were all from Virginia)? What made Toledo on their radar? The ethnic melting pot of Northwest Ohio? Riiiiight. The quoted "gang problems" of Toledo? Hmmm... The general consensus of everyone (especially whites) in Toledo was "Let's shank these fuckers." That would be the consensus of everyone in EVERY Ohio city over 80,000 (ok...so Parma...dunno...). People rioted because of the police "protecting" the Nazis when all anyone wanted to do was beat them. There are some very funny pictures online of black Toledo police officers standing in front of the 8 Nazis to prevent their beating. You can imagine what kind of anger this caused in a 16-year-old Crip. Sounds like one big love fest. They should've stayed at home. And I of course did not stereotype Nati based on that one incident. It took getting to know hundreds of people in the area to see the broader picture. I learned everything about Ohio's regional divides from running diversity seminars. The attitude differences from different parts of the state are AMAZING. Like I've said before, the microcosm of America. Yes, ditto. I've heard many opinions and such as well. I've even HOSTED seminars dealing with racism in the state of Ohio and believe me, Toledo is no acception when dealing with racism. Again, the whole state deals with the same shit. Only blind boosterism would show "attitude differences in different parts of the state." The WHOLE state of Ohio has an attitude, which we all need to correct. BTW, Northwest Ohio outside of metro Toledo is VERY racist. It also is conservative and red to the bone. Luckily, over half of Northwest Ohio's population is in metro Toledo. Metro Toledo was one of the most racist metropolitan areas I've ever experienced. I actually saw no difference between Metro Toledo and, say, Lima. Then again, Lima is hood as hell...but hey...I'm just making stereotypes, right?
  11. Oh, where to begin... Colday, my point is that something other than economy is bringing people to northern Ohio. It's not as simple as "it's the economy, stupid." Greater Toledo and Cleveland have weak economies, certainly weaker than Greater Cincy or Columbus. There are not many job oppurtunities in Toledo and Lucas County, that's for sure. Metro Toledo's Latino population also did not come from migrant workers contrary to popular belief. You neglected to mention something. Toledo area is a large agricultural area. Columbus, Cincinnati, Dayton, Akron, and Cleveland are not almost entirely surrounded by good soils and agragarian fields. Toledo's position near Detroit (who has a wonderful Mexican community in which, yes, Toledo DOES have influence from) and agragarian roots in NW Ohio appeal to Mexicans. It is all about economics; it's just economics have different fashions. That may be true in other parts of Northwest Ohio, but metro Toledo's Latino community is a recent addition to the metro. There were hardly any Latinos in 1980. There is a serious amount of immigration right now in all parts of the metro. Most I know come from other countries or Chicago. Now ask yourself...why? Why would a Mexican family want to move to TOLEDO, OHIO? Well...let's see. Jobs in the "fields"... is certainly possible. Perhaps the connection between Chicago and Detroit, two largely Hispanic Midwest cities. Did I mention agricultural roots? When I graduated my high school in 2003, there were only 30 or 40 Latinos in the whole school (out of 1200 students). When my brother graduated in 2005 that number was well over 100. That's a huge difference for just two years. South Toledo, Maumee, and Monclova are having the most growth right now, and I have yet to meet a single person with any ties to migrant workers. Most are Mexican families from Chicago or Cubans. Cubans? Oy. My high school I believe had over 200 Hispanics and I graduated in 2001. Relevancy of that, I have no idea. They are not from Detroit and they are not from the farms of Northwest Ohio or Southeast Michigan. They were certainly a big factor for Mexican families moving to Toledo (as the surrounding countryside might have other families in which they knew previously before; or they have relatives and/or friends in Detroit). Why the hell else would they move to TOLEDO, OHIO? Their social stances on unionization? Hardly. Toledo and Lucas County are an economic and moral wreck. There is no way that "family values" supporting Latinos are coming to a county where the economy reeks like it does in Lucas. I think we are near rock bottom NATIONWIDE for economic growth. The people of Lucas County hardly espouse any family values or such nonsense. I guess having such high rates of AIDS, drug dealing, and Bloods and Crips chapters numbering in the hundreds is attractive to religious people? That is precisely my point. It has nothing to do with "morals" or "politics." It's all about the money. I would wager Toledo has the some of the worst morals of any large metro in Ohio (being so close to Bowling Green doesn't help). I'd put Dayton and Columbus over Toledo, on that one. Dixie Avenue alone...oy... It's even in the wealthier suburbs. As far as I know, the wealthiest and most conservative parts of Greater Cincy and Dayton do not have strip joints, Asian spas, and whore houses. In Toledo, they do. Incorrect, sorry, Toledo is no exception. Diamonds is one of Ohio's most prestigious strip clubs and it's smack in the middle of suburban Centerville, a decently "wealthy" suburb that is moderately conservative. Springboro had one for awhile; blah blah. Then again, I don't see Ottawa Hills having "whore houses" and such (unless it's by UT)... Think beyond the notion that Toledo is a typical rust belt city. It's done things that other similar cities have not. Louis Escobar represents this to the fullest. I'm not saying that the political power of Latinos in Lucas County is everything to do with it, but probably it plays a big role. I'd like to ask you this: Would you rather settle in a city where blacks hold political power or one where such things are rare or never happen? Neither. I'd pick the city that has power given to all of its residents. And Toledo isn't a city where blacks don't hold political power; they make up over 30% of the city (as the majority of blacks in Metro Toledo are well within Toledo city limits). So Toledo ain't "different" than any other Ohio city in that regard. Like I said, something other than jobs or "family values" are bringing people to Lucas County, because we suck major ass in those departments. Look around Toledo for a second. What do you see? What is across from the mosque off I-75/475? Hmm...gee...I wonder what is attracting them. And to take it a step futher...it's clear that the Mexican community in Toledo has a presence...so why wouldn't they "tell their friends" and set up shop? They did it in west Cincinnati, west Columbus, west Cleveland...oueste baby! But really, Delta, Defiance, Sandusky, etc. are the places related to agriculture. You will see barrios there of familes who are all connected to agriculture in some form. There is a long history of Latinos (much longer than Toledo's) in the argicultural parts of Northwest Ohio. Bingo. And guess where Toledo is? It ain't Central Ohio... And just so you know, my comment about Southern Ohio (not just Dayton) is based only on experience. I've done diversity seminars down here and in Toledo and there some very noticeable differences in the kind of racist comments I hear. It's great if you haven't experienced this, and I hope you never have to. I also have never been called a "honky" in Toledo, but have heard it in Cincinnati. To me, that sounds like there could be more racial tension. Like I said, I've seen things all over southern Ohio (with the worst in Southeast, not Greater Dayton or Cincy) that I haven't seen in Toledo. Maybe just bad luck on my part, but the fact I've spent most of my life in the Toledo area makes me think there could be a difference. Toledo is one of the VERY few cities (none in Ohio, actually, besides Toledo...okay...and Belpre once) I've ever been to where somebody has actually called me a "nigger." Not "nigga" or "nigger" in a joking form, but "nigger" as in "get the hell out." It was on my trip back from my job in Detroit on I-75 near the "wonderful" Jeep Factory. Now am I going to sit here and stereotype Toledo because I was called a "nigger?" No. I'm not a twit. But I also know that people's viewpoints can change due to what they've seen and such. I naturally presumed (after the incident) that Toledo was some backwater town with racists (and talking to my friends from Toledo and "Fo-town" [Fostoria, apprently], Toledo isn't "good" for blacks) and ignoramaces. Hell, I even went to a meeting here at OSU to talk about "Racism in Northwest Ohio" with three Libby High School graduates (why did I go? Free pizza). Now again, am I going to sit here and say Toledo is Ohio's most racist city? Deep down inside, I certainly feel that (from what I've heard and experienced first-hand) but in reality (or superficially), no. Racism is everywhere and no where in Ohio has exceptions. Nowhere. All right, so Toledo hates Nazis and has a gang problem. Take it further. "Toledo has Nazis and has a gang problem with angry black members." That isn't exactly something to be proud of.
  12. Uh...no. Hispanics largely have voted Republican and Democratic (thus, the big rift in the past two elections). If anything, Mexicans in general lean a bit more conservative due to the "family values" instituted in their culture. If ANY city in Ohio has been on the forefront of "not accepting" and "hostile," it's Toledo in the news as of recent. Dayton has always been accepting to Hispanics (ironic that Kettering has the area's Latino Festival); the problem with Dayton is...it has no jobs to attract Hispanics. Cincinnati is attracting Hispanics (particularly Guetemeleans) on the city's west side. Toledo's Hispanic population clearly stems from Detroit's Downriver access to the Great Lakes ports/NW Ohio farm culture and such. Cleveland's has been historically more Puerto Rican/Brasilian/etc due to the old LTV/Steel/Lorain/etc. Southeast Ohio lacks "jobs" for Mexicans to migrate to, thus the agrigarian northern Ohio, which has farms and such, is more attractive for Hispanics. When have you ever heard a detailed explaination of Hispanics moving to Altoona to work in the coal mines? Or Mingo Junction to work "for the man every night and day?" The whole idea of Hispanics choosing northern over southern Ohio because of politics is outlandishly silly. Otherwise, Pennsylvania would be a hotbed of Hispanic growth vs. the more "conservative" Kansas backwashes. Oh wait. It isn't. Rural Pennsylvania (and to an extent, Pittsburgh), like Southeast Ohio, is mostly old industrial rustbelt in which there are no jobs for Hispanics. Kansas? Agrigarian and simple. Food is always needed. So please, leave "Metro Dayton" out of the blindly ignorant comments of "not accepting diversity" shit.
  13. I hope it happens. That area of the riverfront needs something.
  14. As the rise of OTR and the West End comes, the fall of Price Hill and Westwood is clear. Oy! And I like Price Hill!!!
  15. Smart move, if they wanted to keep/stay in business.
  16. Cooking up Business at The Greene Several eateries may make Dayton debut at complex The Greene, what is expected to become the Dayton area's newest retail superpower, is finalizing deals for a crop of new restaurants. The 900,000-square-foot lifestyle center, set to open August 2006, will feature 10 restaurants and bars -- most entering the Dayton area for the first time. http://dayton.bizjournals.com/dayton/stories/2005/10/31/story1.html
  17. Like me :) Not when it comes to strip clubs...
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