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Posts posted by Metz44

  1. 7 minutes ago, cle_guy90 said:


    Big news. They say they will leave the headquarters at Nela Park. Anyone with insights on what this means?

    I believe they just mean that NELA Park will now be owned by Savant. 

  2. 3 hours ago, Clefan98 said:


    Construction costs were 300M...The $400M figure was the overall project total..

    Ok? Add 30 million for inflation and remember that building received no subsidies. If my representatives are gonna hand them a $100 million dollar check, you best believe i'm gonna sit here and judge a building with $270m in construction costs (Although not including Brecksville). All I'm saying is SHW better pull through and build a HQ that Cleveland deserves since we invested so much into them.

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  3. 6 minutes ago, LlamaLawyer said:


    The construction prices vary so much building to building. There are plenty of examples that are more money for less space, but there are plenty of examples that are within the SHW price range too. Here's one that's fairly close to the SHW space needs and was only $200 million building cost, with parking in the base. https://www.martinmartin.com/project/1144-fifteenth/


    Also, a lot of these numbers we are throwing around may be project cost, not building cost. The SHW HQ project cost is $360 million, which is pretty close to the PNC figure anyway.

    I agree although I doubt that building in Denver received over $100m in grants and even more in low interest financing from the local gov. For the amount taxpayers have invested, I don’t want a building looking like that on public square.

  4. Cleveland still has obligations to pay teachers, police, and firefighters. All the while receiving significantly reduced tax income. Luckily the city does have built up reserves but $14M sitting aside isn't the best investment right now. SHW likely wouldn't even care if that money was loaned out right now and their grant payment was pushed back to 2021. But you guys are so set in your ways in believing we can't even ask. Tomorrow thousands of small business owners are going to be faced with difficult decisions. Do they pay rent or close up shop? Thankfully none of you represent our communities. Small businesses are the foundation of our economy and shame on you for reprimanding the city on trying to find any possible solution. Even if that means asking a major employer for a delayed payment. 

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  5. 8 minutes ago, WindyBuckeye said:

    I almost guarantee all the incentives yet disclosed to the public have been presented to SHW already. SHW agreed to the deal for all of the incentives. City does not have the strength here.

    We're talking about Polensek's letter to fellow council representatives. The city obviously has to pay the incentives agreed upon within the package. The question is whether the payments are due soon or that money could be used for loans instead of sitting aside for the time being.

  6. 48 minutes ago, YABO713 said:


    As an attorney here - if the incentives were used as a part of the package, a bad faith claim against the city is not a good look...


    Moreover, SHW could afford to take a 20% loss on that land and not bat an eyelash

    A bad faith claim? Really? None of us know when payments are due to SHW. JobsOhio hasn't even stated their grant package yet so its unlikely payments are due anytime soon. But please continue with the fear tactics bigshot.

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  7. I think all your reactions demonstrate the inability to negotiate in a position of strength. I simply was in favor of representatives speaking up and publicizing the amount of incentives corporations are granted. It's not a game of chicken, it's using leverage to further your interests. I don't believe it was a bad deal but the incentive package does seem a little much. Especially when you look into the headquarters only costing $300m. This building will not be as transformational as some of you state with that price tag. Additionally, we don't even have the full scope of the agreement. I don't understand the notion of being silent unless you're in 100% agreement with the deal. 

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  8. 37 minutes ago, Mendo said:

    Polensek needs to quit grandstanding. I said this earlier, this is a once in a lifetime development opportunity. Silver bullet economic development usually doesn't work (looking at you sports stadiums), but this has potential for real economic spinoff, not just bars and restaurants that are busy a handful of days a year.

    Sherwin Williams already bought the land. They are not going to pull out because our representatives rightfully call them out for demanding incentives. Additionally, we have only seen the smallest portions of incentives as the state and JobsOhio figures are unknown. I find it problematic everyone operates from a position of fear instead of strength. Relocating is costly and was extremely unlikely. I'm not saying it was a bad deal. There are significant benefits to each party. Although, at the very least, we should allow our representatives to humble the corporations that seek these incentives. If that means calling them out in the time of a crisis, then so be it. 

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  9. 10 minutes ago, Frmr CLEder said:

    Does the State even talk to the City?


    It seems absolutely ridiculous that the state would offer anything before talking to the city.

    OADQA won't approve the financing without city approval. This is such a clear case of overstep that the city can just threaten a lawsuit. Everyone knows how the case would play out.

  10. The argument this project deserves a 30 year 100% tax abatement is unacceptable. Cleveland has one of the worst poverty rates in the country. These tax dollars will go on to be invested in poorer neighborhoods and schools. I feel as though everyone sees a flashy design that can't work without large tax exemptions and argue the neighborhood needs THAT project. If this project cannot survive without a substantially lower tax abatement, it simply shouldn't be built.

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