Jump to content

327

Jeddah Tower 3,281'
  • Content Count

    7,463
  • Joined

  • Last visited

  • Days Won

    1

327 last won the day on October 20 2018

327 had the most liked content!

Community Reputation

50 Excellent

Recent Profile Visitors

The recent visitors block is disabled and is not being shown to other users.

  1. 327

    Toxic Masculinity

    No, but only liberals suggest it's a problem. In a democratic system that may not be a good move. It takes a lot of explanation before Toxic Masculinity doesn't sound like a potshot at half the world, and the explanations don't quite make it work because they rely on prejudice. There are indeed men who do bad things and they should be dealt with. But only they.
  2. 327

    Toxic Masculinity

    All you're furthering is the conservative argument that PC rules only apply to conservatives. This concept breaks all of them, and now we're making broad conjectures about black society.
  3. 327

    Toxic Masculinity

    It's not confusing. If you don't intend to invoke all the masculine people, don't say masculinity. Problems can arise whenever we say one thing and mean something else. This phrase is one adjective and one noun. It bears multiple readings but the clearest one sounds like intentional trolling. People need to own that. We can argue about subsets all day long but that's meta-textual. My opposition to "toxic masculinity" is political and academic, but "white trash" is a bit more personal for me. I don't think it's a good comparison because it zeroes in on its chosen subset and really goes at them, while also insulting every other color of poor people by default. No hiding the ball there. That term belongs in the 20th century dustbin. Why don't we just say honky instead? Honky is good clean fun.
  4. 327

    Toxic Masculinity

    Sounds like a great reason to never say "toxic masculinity," since our whole point is that the toxic ideas are not masculine and should never be construed as such. We want these two concepts to be miles apart, not rammed together. Right? And to get the results we're looking for, we need people to listen to us... Swedish people, by the sounds of it, so this notion of "toxic Swedishness" has to go. No matter how pervasive we think the Swedish problem is, they're never going to respond well to that kind of terminology, no matter how many times we tell them we were only referring to those other Swedes over there, the bad ones.
  5. 327

    Toxic Masculinity

    These are all bad teachings that shouldn't be taught. But it remains dead wrong to attach one person's bad acts to any other person on the basis of gender, or race, or origin, any other ascribed characteristic. I don't care if every criminal you ever met is Swedish and you've never met a non-Swedish criminal... you still do not refer to criminal behavior as Swedish. I can't believe I'm having to fight so hard for this premise.
  6. 327

    Toxic Masculinity

    I'm not offended, I'm concerned that the phrase toxic masculinity (and the thinking behind it) is unhelpful. I agree with X that the phrase is being promoted to score political points and I believe that effort is misguided. There is no question that bad behavior is bad and should cease, the issue to me is that stereotyping by gender won't get us there.
  7. 327

    Toxic Masculinity

    If the same commercial were made about any given race or creed, instead of gender, would this approach be problematic in any way? You know it would. "We realize all of you aren't bad... but maybe if the good ones could help... those others..."
  8. 327

    Toxic Masculinity

    This really gets to the heart of it... which men? The insult appears to have splattered onto at least a few (billion?) people that nobody thinks are jerks. That's what I'm gathering here. And typically in cases like that, we admit fault and refine our language. We don't keep insisting that those offended were too dumb to get it. That's more like what Louis CK would do. I still haven't seen this razor commercial and at this point I doubt that its content is really the issue. The issue is whether it's ever OK to stereotype, and it's been brewing for a while at the edges of whatever movement this phrase is part of. Another deeper issue here is what gender even means, to what extent it's objective and biological vs arbitrary and behavioral. People can talk right past each other without first establishing that part.
  9. 327

    Toxic Masculinity

    So the film Mean Girls is a study on masculinity? Keep digging!
  10. 327

    Toxic Masculinity

    This person has the answer but lets it slip through her fingers.
  11. 327

    Toxic Masculinity

    My definition of masculinity involves private parts and their roles in reproduction. And there's nothing toxic about it. No, this topic isn't complex, unless you want to assign genders to behaviors, at which point it becomes a pretty large can of worms.
  12. 327

    Toxic Masculinity

    This exact logical structure is used to terrifying effect against various ethnic groups throughout the world. You and I both know that we cannot extrapolate in this way. Behaviors are not gendered any more than they are racial-- regardless of statistics.
  13. 327

    Toxic Masculinity

    Absolutely not. Here, you're talking specifically and exclusively about one relationship, with no spillover intended or implied. That is different than attaching "toxicity" to half the human race, categorically, when everyone agrees that you're really talking about specific behaviors. Why is there such unbridled yearning to claim that masculinity itself is toxic? Why so much resistance to respecting individuals as individuals?
  14. 327

    Toxic Masculinity

    No. In that case, there's no debate over whether it's the environment itself that's toxic. In this case, the toxicity applies to the behavior rather than to the gender. And again, behaviors are not gendered. When females catcall, whether toward a male or another female, they are not engaging in masculinity. I'm not claiming that female catcalling is some kind of serious problem. My point is that the toxicity you're referring to cannot be attached to "masculinity" because it doesn't apply to all masculinity, nor does it apply exclusively to masculinity. It's both overinclusive and underinclusive. I know it's easier, and perhaps more fun, to call out 4 billion dudes without bothering to differentiate. But that doesn't make it work. We can't rationally oppose some stereotypes while fighting to the death for others.
  15. 327

    Toxic Masculinity

    That book has failed to launch its title as a popular expression or a term of art. Parenting is still a thing that we all believe clear behavioral standards should apply to, and my point is that masculinity isn't. Any behavioral standards that apply to masculinity also apply to its opposite. To the extent the standards differ, we are telling people how to behave-- and judging them-- based on gender. I thought the whole idea was to get away from that. Again, we can't have it both ways.
×