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I can never get too many views and perspectives of the Lumen? And check out that beautiful reflection of the Keith Building in its shiny new windows? This project is transformational for our city in so many ways.

LC Matan: LC Trautman courtyard/pool: Crawford Hoying Cherry Street:

Plus, we have a Burke Lakefront Airport thread......

Harlow on Main:

Xander on State: Topiary Park townhomes:

The closing of Burke is a topic that comes up at least on an annual basis on the forum if not more often. The debate goes on for 2-3 pages and then disappears until the next go around. Everybody has strong views on the subject. Its use as parkland always seems to be a popular view. I am hardly an expert but over the years people have indicated the following: The FAA will not allow it or the approval process would be long and drawn out (again I don't know if this is true). As noted above it is built on a landfill which limits what type of development can go in (which I guess favors the park people). Building anything large could be very expensive given the land underneath and does that make sense when there is so much vacant land downtown that would cost less to build on. Finally, you always hear that the land underneath is very toxic (again I have no idea what that means but make sense if the landfill includes dredging from the river) which would either be a regulatory nightmare to build on and at a minimum would increase development costs significantly

Lol, as someone who is a Cleveland booster, I don’t see the point in acting as if the two cities are in competition. I was in Columbus in February and it’s booming. What’s good for any of Ohio’s big cities is good for all of Ohio. Competition is silly. Attempting to stir the pot on UO is even sillier.

All the way to the right. From Bar 32

The 26-Detroit is a very unreliable bus route. I waited a few minutes for it after taking the Red Line home from the All-star game, but decided to instead take the 66R bus to West 117th and catch the 78 to the Gold Coast. Worked much better. As much as I would like to see the Waterfront Line extended as a downtown loop around the East Side of the CBD, there's also a part of me that would like to see the Waterfront Lin extended North East along the Shoreway and the tracks (which are used more by Amtrak than by freight trains) as part of a focused effort to incentivize high-rise housing between downtown and Bratenahl.

The designated relief airports for Hopkins are Burke, Cuyahoga County, Medina, Lost Nation, and Lorain County. The most capable in terms of runway capacity and trained emergency services of all of those is BKL.

Not only CLE, but, actually, ALL airports need relief. "growing majority would like to take it back. " You mean restoring the Municipal Dump? That's what was there before. If you want to make BKL better utilized, advocate for closure of a weaker asset---the county airport. But don't try to hurt or reduce the city by eliminating something that gives it an economic advantage over competitors.

^I don't get people's obsession with closing Burke. BKL is reliever to Hopkins and is important to the Cleveland economy. True, the Fed doesn't run checks through there every night. Check clearing is now done electronically. But a new big user is the Cleveland Clinic. They have 2 or 3 jets--painted in their colors--based at BKL and use it fly people into CLE when seconds count. Also, the county airport is a tiny little airport---so comments about "3 airports in the county...." are pointless unless you're talking about closing the County Airport. BKL can handle 737s, A321, B757s, etc. The county airport couldn't handle any of those. And while Hopkins could---see sentence #2 above---BKL is a reliever for Hopkins.

I like the balloons. Certainly good for the air traffic at BKL. Re the Waterfront Line, yes, service may increase if this all this happens, but still where will people go? Other than Hopkins Airport, Little Italy, W. 25 St, the Terminal Tower (which can be walked to from here) and Shaker Sq, the rail system and the development around them as destinations is limited. If they can afford the rents/mortgage at the Lakefront, they're not jumping on a bus. We need more investments in rail.

You’re right! We need 3 airports in the county for a shrinking population operating at 1/3 capacity of 20 years ago, choking the lakefront, costing Clevelanders $2 million per year because meme. Maybe if Amazon comes here we can do something.

230 East Long: Schottenstein:

Overall point taken, but acting like you can tell if a city is booming or not by an overnight visit in Feb is quite humorous.

You do realize that the bulk of Burke is landfill and not suitable for high rises? The new UO visionaries always think that closing Burke means immediate expansion of downtown to the lake. Look at the example of Scranton Peninsula. A nice big swath of land next to downtown that could can finally be developed to its fullest. With all that land available, the first developer wants to put an infill apartment complex in surrounded by a sea of parking. That is not what anyone had in mind. With likely building height restrictions due to unstable soil and need for additional shoring up plus the water tables being high, i can’t envision any thing taller than 10 stories and that is likely pushing it. More likely what would happen is a retail complex with big box stores and hotels and yes apartment complexes probably 2-3 stories high.

^Definitely a bean counting exercise. Who is to say that by shuttering Burke there wouldn’t need to be additional expenditures, infrastructure and otherwise, at other surrounding airports. The unknown cost of companies and government offices that might leave downtown because of lack of access to Burke has to be weighed. Opportunity cost of future companies that may not come to Cleveland because of lack of easy access to downtown as well. The biggest thing MTS was hinting at is the millions that will have to be spent in the future modifying the infrastructure at Burke to undo the airport. The land isn’t going to be an instant corporate park or mixed use facility. How much will it cost to get it ready for its next mission? The better and much easier to answer would be ‘What can Burke do better to limit costs and increase revenues?’ If one is focused on bean counting.

I've always thought of myself as a person who thinks outside the box, so I've titled this post, "at what cost?" I've never heard those figures used before. What is your definition of "underused"? Considering United Sabotaged Hopkins, "underused" is not accurate. It's under performing! The FAA, city, county and elected Federal officials would all have to be on the same page to close Burke. How much does that cost - politically and financially? Even if the city saved 7 million, how much would it cost users of the airport? I know the Federal Government and the banking community are major users of the airport. What is the cost for businesses that ship product, to switch to Hopkins? What is the cost to the Aviation businesses that call Burke home? How does a move affect the total number employees, city and private, that work at the airport? If a move was agreed upon, Internal and external changes will need to be made at Hopkins. Where do you move these carriers? You can't use D, as United owns the lease, until 2030. They are paying to keep the space closed. The airport would have to have master plan that shows cancelling the agreement and reopening the concourse would bring in more operating revenue and profit, per month, than what United pays, per month. That sum is 1 million USD a month. If operations move to Hopkins, what is the cost? Hopkins has not always run under capacity. It was a very busy hub, now with LCC moving in, the airport traffic has improved. If operations did move from Burke to Hopkins, it would become a delay prone airport. I will ask again, if Burke is closed, can anything be developed on the property? Considering how it was created, is it safe to convert, at a bare minimum, park space? I would guess the various environmental agencies would need to be involved. Meaning mo money, mo money, mo money to a consultant. if it can be converted, what is built and programmed for this space? Who pays for the maintenance of structures, staff and programming? What is the cost? Having just scratched the surface of cost, to close Burke and relocate operations, $7 million a year would not be saved. In the end we know consumers departing Hopkins and Cleveland tax payers will be responsible, for costs, but at what cost?

Thanks! For those of you who, like me, had forgotten what the most recent renderings look like, here you go. And the answer to my question is that the land bridge would jog to the East to go over the Shoreway and Lerner Way where they are at lower relative elevation. And if the the mall is extended through the new dev to the lake:

Well...we recently banned someone (not you) earlier today but I don't know why it would affect you. Unless...you're that same person (?).

The size fits perfect with the height of all the buildings the in photo.

Where exactly were the Horton Harper houses in the Glenville thread before I posted them in the UC thread? Apologies if I missed it, but as far as I could tell the other town homes had been mentioned before, but I hadn't seen these mentioned anywhere until I pulled them out of the design review materials for people on here to see. Huh? Somehow my erroneously posting a new project in the forum for a neighborhood 2-3 blocks south of an imaginary diving line between neighborhoods is me being too lazy? And it's not like these are international borders or something between these neighborhoods, or was posted in a forum on the opposite side of town.

I was in Columbus for several days for work speaking with movers and shakers in the business community. I got a very good sense of what is happening there. You're assumption that I was only there overnight is based on what? Columbus is doing very well. There is no other way to put it. Cleveland is doing well compared to what it has been doing 10-20 years ago, but of course is battling issues that don't affect Columbus as much: poverty, crime, loss of manufacturing, etc. Cleveland is not made lesser by Columbus' successes, but should focus on ways to solve and improve the issues that are unique to Cleveland and then celebrate it's own unique successes.

I feel like adding an attraction like Navy Pier in Chicago on a closed BKL would be a nice way to reuse the land. Adds activity over there and becomes a destination.

1) Cleveland is failing compared to other cities. We are losing population while other cities are growing. We can agree this is a problem. 2) almost 500,000 flights in 2000, 187,000 flights in 2017, 3 airports, city loses $2 million at Burke with revenues dropping. We can agree that this is a problem, at least for the city. What is the benefit from losing this public money and for who? 3) incentivize moves to cut future costs. 4) users would move with services 5) the FAA does close airports if they are not needed. There is a lengthy process and we will need Congressmen on down on the same page. It may be a waste of time to even try. Again, the problem is that the flight path of Burke limits any development north of Route 2. Not that we would instantly develop the land Burke sits on but the land north of downtown would have less restrictions on it and become more attractive to developers. Who wants to live in a condo next to a runway when planes are most at risk of crashing? Even if Burke was left as a nature preserve—btw it is half the size of Central Park in NYC—we would still make the lakefront more useable by just closing it. Hopkins seems capable of handling at least double the traffic that it is now so why not cut costs as we shrink and try to engineer a comeback. Part of that comeback means making Cleveland a place people want to live. We have been doing something wrong, the status quo will be our demise.

You are really trying to make "Terdolph Park" a thing! LMAO

1.Relief airports from CLE include CAK <50 miles, and DTW, CMH and Pit <125 miles. 2. There is no economic advantage. 3. Yes, I do mean 'restoring the Municipal Dump' for better use. Perhaps you're aware that landfills are becoming some of largest and most popular parks in cities around the world, a trend in the US dating back to the late 1800s when Grant, Lincoln and Burnham Parks in Chicago were all created. If BKL soil tests unsafe then perhasp an airport is the best use, but rhetorical health concerns won't fly much longer.

^"It was NEVER a reliever airport." Burke was not created to be a reliever---but was developed to be an airport in its own right. But, in terms of an integrated national air system, BKL is an FAA-designated reliever for Hopkins.

Well, when you start from the bottom, your percentage is going to be higher than if you're on top. Cardi B went from 0 to 100% in GDP change thanks to an invasion of her privacy. Beyonce took a dip since her lemonade stand went dry working on crowning a lion. Her GDP likely dropped. Still, Beyonce is Beyonce and Cardi is on her way. Thus, Columbus and Cleveland.

Lets stop kidding ourselves that Hopkins needs relief. CLE isn't LAX, SFO, ORD, ATL, MIA. I agree it's nice to have, but it's NOT NEEDED. If BKL was shut down tomorrow the Cleveland Clinic would quickly redirect its flights to Hopkins or Richmond Heights (helicopter transfers for urgent cases), flights schools could be easily relocated, and private users would quickly adjust. And a bona fide financial argument for keeping BKL doesn't exist. So we can make hypothetical arguments to support the FAA, the city, the county and all of the other BKL defenders, but Cleveland's lakefront is being held captive by a shrinking minority and, from what I can tell, a growing majority would like to take it back.

ummmmm....just because it is under capacity, that does not not mean an incident could not occur there....airports or runways are closed ALL THE TIME due to MANY external factors, hence the need for relievers.

Exactly why many points in my post was ignored. I touched on how the closing of Burke would affect tenants of airport, and employees.

^ You were gonna go weren't you?

Hence, the Greater University Circle Initiative I wrote about here.... Leveraging the Boomtown http://neo-trans.blogspot.com/2018/08/leveraging-boomtown.html Then again, if the Cleveland Clinic didn't design its buildings like military-style bunkers, and built more transitional housing for its employees, there might be even more spin-off benefits from this now-sheltered affluence....

Not that it has to do with development, but I think people have a hard time associating development in neighborhoods that aren’t viewed as positively as UC. A really interesting drive, south on E 105 from Superior to Quincy and you’ll see some of the most affluent and most depressed areas big city USA has to offer, all within a little more than a mile.

Just commenting on some of the posts on this thread, not tied to an actual development. Sorry.

Have to take a ferry, but also Kelleys Island has sites on the water.

Lake County Metroparks has some lake campsites. I think they're booked for the year though.

so...its covering the parking lot? I figured there would be a garage, I just meant im glad there wont be a surface lot there anymore

I can see where they're coming from. These days to a lot of people "Motorist" sounds like someone driving on an open car while wearing leather gloves, glass goggles, a long scarf and a pudding bowl helmet.

The wife and I hit waterfall #8 today out of the 9 in CVNP. Only one left to go! This one was Greenwood Falls, and was by far the most demanding hike once you're off the towpath, but it was worth it - probably my 2nd favorite in the park after Twin Sister Falls. (My apologies if there's any profanity in the video haha) Video (1).MOV

I wholeheartedly agree that parking is the worst utilization of space period. But, anyone who would be able to afford these is used to traveling by car. Potential residents expect parking otherwise they'll pass. The waterfront line comes maybe every 30 min? And then, where to? We have to face the fact that Cleveland is not New York City. RTA is drastically underfunded and thus traveling thereby is extremely limited. My wife and I live and work downtown, but unfortunately we still need one car between the two of us for certain errands/trips. For example, to take the dogs to the vet, to go grocery shopping where it isn't outrageously priced, and to get to our parents' houses in the suburbs.

You’re probably right.

I don't really understand this sentiment. Cincinnati has always had neighborhoods that have restaurants, shops, parks, and bars within walking distance. Hyde Park, Mt. Lookout, Clifton, Northside, Mt. Adams, Oakley all fit this bill, and all existed before the revitalization of OTR. I understand that The Banks isn't for everyone. It's 100% not for me, for example. In addition to the crowds and noise of the stadiums, the biggest knock for me is being right next to the FWW freeway trench and the super wide freeway-lite Second and Third streets. But it seems to me that the urban core neighborhoods have more amenities now than they have basically ever had in the modern era. It sucks that Macys and the other retail by Fountain Square has gone away, but in terms of having daily needs accessible, I think the core is in a better place today than basically ever before. The amount of restaurants in OTR far exceeds the offerings of any other neighborhood. Findlay Market is booming, and the retail spaces around the market are getting rehabbed and filled for the first time in my lifetime. There's a streetcar to circulate people around to the different nodes (performance/route issues aside). There will soon be a full service grocery store and food hall. Beautiful and vibrant new and rehabbed parks (Ziegler, Washington, Smale). Downtown and surrounding neighborhoods still offer the most walkable environment in the region, plus it's the only part of the region with real traditional urbanism and it has the best transit access of any neighborhood. I also don't really understand the complaints about the city center not being pedestrian friendly. Downtown and OTR have pretty narrow streets as it is. Traffic is not an issue outside of maybe the afternoon rush hour. Jay walking is routine and easy and not policed. Could the city have more bike lanes? Sure. They could add pedestrian bumpouts to other streets in OTR like Main St got. Liberty, Central Parkway and the streets by the Banks are a mess and need to be narrowed for sure. But overall, I never thought Downtown Cincinnati was difficult or stressful to navigate on foot...like at all. It's quite easy and pleasant, I think. Blocks are short, lights are frequent, streets are seldom crowded. Not really sure where these complaints are coming from. Of course Cranley and Co. suck, and they should have moved forward on the giving pedestrians the walk light before cars get the green, implemented signal priority for the streetcar months ago, etc. But overall, I think the situation isn't bad at all for pedestrians.

Am I counting correctly, are they up to the 20th floor?

^That's actually a really great idea.

Article yesterday. Article today. Planning on another one tomorrow! FRIDAY, MAY 3, 2019 University Circle's trio of 11-story developments Three developments featuring 11-story residential buildings are planned to rise in the coming months in Cleveland's University Circle. Two are slated to be on Euclid Avenue but won't be next to each other. In fact, they'll be on opposite ends of the city's fast-growing cultural, educational and medical district. The third will be less than two blocks north of the westernmost tower. The Finch Group is proposing to build a mixed-use project called Infinium on the soon-to-be-vacated site of the Cleveland-East facility for the Centers for Dialysis Care (CDC), 11717 Euclid Ave., according to two sources. MORE: https://neo-trans.blogspot.com/2019/05/university-circles-trio-of-11-story.html